Ze wrote:I'm interested in them but I'd probably cut my ankle on a rock or something on a trail.

yeah, that's what I would be afraid of, too

SoCalHiker wrote:

Ze wrote:I'm interested in them but I'd probably cut my ankle on a rock or something on a trail.

yeah, that's what I would be afraid of, too

re the five finger shoes ... I've saw several hikers wearing them, so asked about them. They said they were very comfortable. My acupuncturist recommended I try a pair (I have a lot of feet issues -flat, bunions, neuroma) so I went to the shoe store to try them on. They didn't have any in my size.

It's hard to say for sure that they are good for you, but there is a lot of promise. I may get a pair eventually.

If anyone buys them, I'd suggest building up very slowly. Start with walking, then a little running. Keep in mind that loss of a heel pad functionally changes your mechanics when running - instead of heelfoot strike (HFS) people strike the ground with either midfoot (MFS) or forefoot strike (FFS). This changes the loading and muscle demand across the foot and on up.

The active lengthening of your calf muscles (esp soleus) due to FFS means the muscle will stretch while you are contracting it. This is the phenomena that illicits significant delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) because the muscle is suffering microtrauma. And it loses force production capability until it recovers.

You go run 1 mile in Five Fingers or barefoot and your calves will be really sore! So you have to take it easy. It will also put more stress on your arch, which has weakened from relying on shoes with support over the years.

Also people tend to run with more flexed knees and hips which may change some stresses. Comparing running efficiency between barefoot and with running shoes hasn't been well explored, yet...

On the flip side, for rock climbers, barefoot work can offer a huge benefit in foot and calf strength and endurance. For me it also increased the, um, sensitivity... not the exact right word. I am much more aware of my foot position and how I use it, in boots, in rock shoes, in Tevas, etc.

DMT

Dingus Milktoast wrote:On the flip side, for rock climbers, barefoot work can offer a huge benefit in foot and calf strength and endurance. For me it also increased the, um, sensitivity... not the exact right word. I am much more aware of my foot position and how I use it, in boots, in rock shoes, in Tevas, etc.

DMT

proprioception

interesting that a little barefoot work makes you more aware when shoes are on, good to know...

I am one who believes that the mountains are a temple and not a playground.

By that I mean that the mountains deserve respect and admiration. The mountains and the wilderness are not play things that you can trash and modify at will.

The current generation seems to believe that they can chop, bolt, glue or do whatever they want to build their little playground (route).

They believe that they can invade designated wilderness and drill bolts because the law doesn't apply to them, a law that is meant to protect the wilderness from exactly that kind of human activity.

Look no further than the Access Fund to see an attitude where climbers demand to go where ever they want and do whatever they want. The mountains are their little playground. Have they no respect?

I am also a caver. Due to the more fragile nature of caves, and the fact that human impact is often permanent, we have more stringent unwritten rules and ethics regards human impact. Slimbers (scumbag climbers) have no respect whatsoever for caves and cave ethics. They come in and trash the place, putting up bolts everywhere. There was even one documented case where a climber bolted a route through a large ancient petroglyph in a cave. WTF?

There's nothing wrong with using the mountains as a "playground" as long as you respect what is there and don't trash it.

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:I am one who believes that the mountains are a temple and not a playground.

By that I mean that the mountains deserve respect and admiration. The mountains and the wilderness are not play things that you can trash and modify at will.

The current generation seems to believe that they can chop, bolt, glue or do whatever they want to build their little playground (route).

They believe that they can invade designated wilderness and drill bolts because the law doesn't apply to them, a law that is meant to protect the wilderness from exactly that kind of human activity.

Look no further than the Access Fund to see an attitude where climbers demand to go where ever they want and do whatever they want. The mountains are their little playground. Have they no respect?

I am also a caver. Due to the more fragile nature of caves, and the fact that human impact is often permanent, we have more stringent unwritten rules and ethics regards human impact. Slimbers (scumbag climbers) have no respect whatsoever for caves and cave ethics. They come in and trash the place, putting up bolts everywhere. There was even one documented case where a climber bolted a route through a large ancient petroglyph in a cave. WTF?

There's nothing wrong with using the mountains as a "playground" as long as you respect what is there and don't trash it.

I´m not disagreeing with you, but I´d just point out that it´s not a new thing or confined to the current generation. And to play the devils advocate a bit - the members of the older generation often thinks the younger one doesn´t seem to get it.
Cheers

as one on the transition point between old and young generations, i'd offer that the new kids are probably better aware than the old generations where conservation is concerned, there's just so many more of them running out to REI, buying a sport package, making all of the noob mistakes, and giving it up a month later that more violations are taking place out of sheer ignorance.

Well said.

peladoboton wrote:as one on the transition point between old and young generations, i'd offer that the new kids are probably better aware than the old generations where conservation is concerned, there's just so many more of them running out to REI, buying a sport package, making all of the noob mistakes, and giving it up a month later that more violations are taking place out of sheer ignorance.

Food for thought.

But that doesn't explain why the Access Fund feels that wilderness laws do not apply to them.

Ze wrote:proprioception

Doesn't work well for me.

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:

peladoboton wrote:as one on the transition point between old and young generations, i'd offer that the new kids are probably better aware than the old generations where conservation is concerned, there's just so many more of them running out to REI, buying a sport package, making all of the noob mistakes, and giving it up a month later that more violations are taking place out of sheer ignorance.

Food for thought.

But that doesn't explain why the Access Fund feels that wilderness laws do not apply to them.

Cali. thing? Their work has been positive around here.

Whoa! Nice cerebellum, dude. That is a particularly bad place to have a problem, glad you are in such good shape afterwards.

knoback wrote: Cali. thing? Their work has been positive around here.

Maybe the Access Fund has smartened up. I've been ignoring those idiots for so many years now I don't know what they've been up to lately. They'll never get a dime from me.

Hey MoapaPk, what's that big dark spot in your right cerebellar cortex?

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:Hey MoapaPk, what's that big dark spot in your right cerebellar cortex?

Scar tissue -- actually all the PICA territory. Clot got stuck in the PICA in 2002.