Completely New to Mountaineering - Please Advise

[herot]

I am a hiker/camper/climber from the Southeast US looking to get into mountaineering. I have never used crampons, ice axes/tools or placed my own climbing protection. I have hiked Mt. Elbert, Mt. Massive, Mt St. Helens, Half Dome, Mt Dana, Mt. Katahdin and several other smaller mountains and trails in the Southeast. I boulder (currently max at V4-V5). I have done some sport climbing and a few leads. I am thinking of hiring a guide service for my first Alpine outing. I have been told that Mt. Baker is a good start and the guide service will teach me crampon hiking, self arrest and crevasse rescue. I plan to buy what ever clothing I need and rent the gear at first. Can anyone offer additional advice (gear, location, guide services, etc)?

[ExcitableBoy]

Mt. Baker is an exceptional choice. Either Coleman-Deming or Easton Glacier are good introductory routes. Weather in the Cascades becomes much more stable after July 5th, when the jet stream reliably shifts. July - August and even into September many years is a good time for Mt Baker. Much later than mid September and the glacier can become too icy or broken.

Mountain Madness, Alpine Ascents International, and American Alpine Institute all offer courses on Mt. Baker and are all well respected guide services. Pro Ski and Guiding in North Bend, WA may offer courses on Mt. Baker as well. Give them a call and see. Kurt Hicks and Chris Simmons, both long time partners and friends, work there and are fantastic guides. Call up American Alpine Institute and speak with Jason Martin, the program director, and let him know you what you are interested in and he will help you find a good course.

Be sure to look for a multi day instructional course, not just a summit course. As far as gear, the guide service you hire will have a long list of requirements and recommendations and will of course be willing to rent and/or sell you many of the items.

[Sierra Ledge Rat]

Your plan to hire a guide is excellent. If you can afford it, you will learn more and faster with a guide, and probably stay alive longer, than those who try to teach themselves.

[Kai]

I can second Excitable Boy's recommendation of Chris Simmons at Pro Ski and Guiding.

I've climbed with Chris, and he's an excellent guide.

The one serious purchase I would make up front (as opposed to renting) is a good pair of mountain boots. You really want your boots to fit well, and if they don't fit well, you will be miserable.

A good all-purpose mountain boot like one of these would be what you want: Just make sure to try them on for fit, as each company's boots tend to fit different foot shapes best. (In general, if you have a narrower foot, Sportiva will work best, and a wider foot fits Scarpa best.)

http://www.sportiva.com/products/footwe ... l-cube-gtx

http://www.sportiva.com/products/footwe ... ura-20-gtx

http://www.sportiva.com/products/footwe ... al-evo-gtx

http://www.scarpa.com/rebel-pro-gtx

http://www.scarpa.com/mont-blanc-gtx

http://www.scarpa.com/phantom-guide

[herot]

Cool, I'll look into getting some boots. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

[herot]

The La Sportiva Batura 2.0's seem to get really good reviews. I have a narrow foot. Does anyone have experience with the Batura's? Would they be a good starter boot?

[jdenyes]

I love my La sportiva Nepal Evos, but one thing I would also mention is that I got "superfeet" insoles in them after about a year of use, and it has really made them even more top notch. You might want to consider optimizing the boots that way. Well fitting boots that keep you safe and sturdy, that dont give you bruises, blisters, or broken toe nails,,,, priceless! Also, break them in slowly and early.
I just started mountaineering two years ago: have fun, stay safe, and enjoy the ride

[ExcitableBoy]

The boots suggestion is excellent. Find a good pair that fit well and break them in. For all around mountaineering and ice climbing an insulated, full grain leather with a full length shank boot is going to be the most versatile. The LS Nepal Top Evo and the Scarpa Mont Blanc are hard to beat, just find which brand fits the best. Most people can get a good fit from one of those two brands, sometimes with some tweaking from an experienced boot fitter.

[herot]

How many ice axes and ice tools are needed?

[ExcitableBoy]

How many ice axes and ice tools are needed?

For the standard routes including Coleman-Deming, Easton Glacier, Boulder Glacier, Sauk Glacier, a single classic piolet (axe) is recommended.

[Kai]

How many ice axes and ice tools are needed?

For the standard routes including Coleman-Deming, Easton Glacier, Boulder Glacier, Sauk Glacier, a single classic piolet (axe) is recommended.

There are a number of "technical" classic axes that work well for traditional snow climbing, and will also perform well on moderately steep ice. They have a slight bend in the upper shaft that gives them better geometry for steeper ice, but still perform well on lower angle slopes and self arrest.

This new(er) breed of axes includes the Black Diamond Venom, the Grivel Air Tech with easy slider, and the Cassin Alp-Axe Special.

http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/cli ... 057_1.html

http://www.123mountain.com/air-tech-car ... MwodKBgA4A

http://www.backcountry.com/grivel-air-tech-evo-ice-axe

http://www.backcountry.com/grivel-air-t ... -ONCO-CM48

http://www.camp-usa.com/products/ice-ax ... 100401.asp

http://www.camp-usa.com/products/ice-ax ... 100402.asp


Having used all of these, my personal favorites are the Cassin and Grivel. The Cassin tools have a useful pop-out hand rest for steeper slopes, and the Grivel easy slider feature is really useful and simple for switching back and forth between steeper and lower angle terrain. Cassin picks are replaceable, which is nice. The Venoms are a bit too light for my tastes, and don't place as well on hard ice compared with the Cassin tools, which have a little more heft.

Get one of these ice axes to start, and if you move on to steeper objectives, you can pair it with a matching hammer. This combination will get you up lots of moderate alpine climbs. Later, if you start tackling more technical objectives, you will want a pair of modern ice tools like the Black Diamond Cobra or Viper or the Cassin X-All Mountain, but for now, I think you'd be happy with one of the new technical ice tools I described above.

[herot]

Ok, we are all set to go with Pro Guiding Service for a 5 day mountaineering school/Mount Baker summit! I'm super excited about this trip!

We decided to rent boots as we can't afford them right now.

[Fletch]

Bless you all for not slamming this guy. I've seen this thread up for a few days and clicked on this to see the full scale pile on and I was pleasantly surprised to see your thoughtful and considerate posts...

Herot - you got no idea what great advice you got! listen to them all... Have fun and good luck!

[jdenyes]

With rented boots there may be the added benefit of them already being broken up, BUT, the definite downs downside that they may not be a perfect fit. Personally, I would bring some tape/moleskin/duct tape, and on the first day pay super attention to if anything feels hot or like its rubbing. Tape it quick, and then if you catch it before blisters form, you will definitely have a more pleasant week.

You may luck out and have no feet problems at all, but I would just be cautious about them on the first day and try to preventative tape hot spots, happy feet mean happy climbers!

OH and sunscreen under your chin and under your nose. Trust me!

[vaulter1]

Sounds like you're good to go. If I can add my 2c to what everyone has already noted: 1st off shop for USED gear. If you're patient in building up your gear closet, you'd be amazed at what you can get for pennies on the dollar that people have only lightly used and decided it didn't work for them. My 3 pairs of boots (La Sportiva as they fit me best), Ice tools (pair of mint condition Cobras 60% off 'cause the original owner didn't like the swing), tent and avy beacon have all been purchased through the buy and sell threads on various mountaineering websites. My other stuff has been snapped up in end-of-season clearances or with cashback rewards etc. The 2nd point, which may be more important than the first, is to figure out what you want to do in the mountains and then build your collection to match. For instance, boots are a very personal choice based on fit but there's also a spectrum of use. As an example, if you're planning on doing multi-day stuff that requires a double-boot then buying the La Sportiva Nepal EVO or even Batura might not be the best option to start with since you'll still need to invest in another pair. Conversely, if you don't plan on doing any extended cold-weather expeditions, a pair of Spantiks or Baruntse is pricey overkill for many climbs in the lower 48. My quiver currently is the Baruntse, Trango Extreme, and Trango S EVO but I’m sure another pair will catch my eye one of these days. This spectrum of use holds true for tools and clothes as well so ease yourself into the sport and enjoy it one step at a time. I'm not saying I don't love shiny new gear but I think sometimes we as a community (and the advertising folks too) go a bit overboard on how you need the fanciest, newest gear and it can feel prohibitively expensive to jump right in.