Why the boot era?

by **MoapaPk** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:33 am

chriss wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:Before about 1970, most crampons didn't have front points.

1970??? Frontpoints came about in the '30s.

And most crampons sold before the 1970s had none.

by **Charles** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:29 am

borutb wrote:Climbing grade VI in heavy (Vibram) boots is a requirement for the mountain guide examination nowadays.
A very good exercize! Especially for smearing
Ankle flexibility! BTW, cramponing without the front points also requires ankle flexibility (though laterally).

H. Buhl describes climbing with felt soled shoes in the 1930s (Kaiser climbing!).
Barefoot climbing was also something! (still demanded at one point in Saxonian alpine education).

I myself do not mind climbing up to grade V/V+ in Vibrams (though once criticized for that as I recently started up the Spik direct without lightweight shoes).

Another thing is that the former boots were not as stiff as today's ones.

And there was (in the 70s) f.i. the "Terray/Saussois" lightweight Vibrams designed for technical limestone routes (VII).

There still are light weight vibrams for technical rock.

by **MoapaPk** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:24 am

My 1st crampons, purchased 1969 to 1970(?).

Crampons with true front points ("lobster claws" in then-current lingo) were still rather unusual.

by **Charles** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:40 am

MoapaPk wrote:My 1st crampons, purchased 1969 to 1970(?).

Crampons with true front points ("lobster claws" in then-current lingo) were still rather unusual.

But front pointing was certainly wide spread in the UK, I´m thinking of Scottish winter climbing, in the early 70´s - or so I think.

by **MoapaPk** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:52 am

charles wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:My 1st crampons, purchased 1969 to 1970(?).

Crampons with true front points ("lobster claws" in then-current lingo) were still rather unusual.

But front pointing was certainly wide spread in the UK, I´m thinking of Scottish winter climbing, in the early 70´s - or so I think.

Let's put it this way: crampons with true front points were not the majority of crampons purchased before the early 1970s. Lobster-claw crampons were regarded as specialized, because people were still of a mind that the "average" person should ascend really steep snow by cutting steps, kicking mightily, or having very flexible ankles. (Well, at least in the USA; Scotland has fewer glaciers.) Yes indeed, when I drove by Chapel Pond Cliffs in 1974, there were people ice-climbing with front points. In a similar vein, the crampons used for ice climbing nowadays (monopoints, 14 points, what have you) are viewed as somewhat specialized.

In the USA, the transition point was about the mid-70s.

by **Charles** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:21 am

MoapaPk wrote:
charles wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:My 1st crampons, purchased 1969 to 1970(?).

Crampons with true front points ("lobster claws" in then-current lingo) were still rather unusual.

But front pointing was certainly wide spread in the UK, I´m thinking of Scottish winter climbing, in the early 70´s - or so I think.

Let's put it this way: crampons with true front points were not the majority of crampons purchased before the early 1970s. Lobster-claw crampons were regarded as specialized, because people were still of a mind that the "average" person should ascend really steep snow by cutting steps, kicking mightily, or having very flexible ankles. (Well, at least in the USA; Scotland has fewer glaciers.) Yes indeed, when I drove by Chapel Pond Cliffs in 1974, there were people ice-climbing with front points. In a similar vein, the crampons used for ice climbing nowadays (monopoints, 14 points, what have you) are viewed as somewhat specialized.

In the USA, the transition point was about the mid-70s.

Indeed Scotland does have fewer glaciers

by **MoapaPk** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:00 am

I agree that serious front-pointing had been around in Europe since the late 30s. But ideas spread slowly back then. I had a winter mountaineering book, written in the 60s, that advised most people to settle for lighter, cheaper 10-point crampons, and basically stay away from the steeper slopes. I have a friend who climbed in the Tetons in the 60s and 70s, and he swore that front points were dangerous for the average Joe (I'm not sure I followed his argument).

Nowadays, everyone seems to want the top gear right away. I recall seeing the crampons with front points in a 1972 EMS catalogue, and feeling cheated; but they were more expensive than the 10-point variety.

by **Fred Spicker** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:42 pm

I started climbing vertical ice in about 1970 – most climbers were commonly using front point crampons at that time.

A quote from here: http://www.climbing.com/print/equipment/crampons/

History is full of climbers better able than me to see into the future, climbers like Oscar Eckenstein, the Englishman credited with realizing the full potential of the modern crampon in 1908, and Laurent Grivel, the Italian smithy who, in 1929, added front points to Eckenstein’s 10-point version — and, of course, America’s own Yvon Chouinard and Tom Frost, whose 1967 rigid design unhinged more than crampons.

Some really good stuff here from the 1968 Chouinard catalog:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/threa ... &tn=0&mr=0

Mine are on my wall…

by **MoapaPk** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:07 pm

Fred Spicker wrote:Some really good stuff here from the 1968 Chouinard catalog:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/threa ... &tn=0&mr=0

Mine are on my wall…

Nice; too bad the resolution on the technique photos isn't a little better.

I started climbing vertical ice in about 1970 – most climbers were commonly using front point crampons at that time.

Certainly for ice climbing.

OK, you guys are gradually exposing the backwater and niggardly ways I had in my youth!

Why the boot era?

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