one of my favourite areas, Dolina Bielych Plies is a magic place especially out of the highest summer season. Nice page about the peak that has always remided me ...a loaf of bread. Anyway thousand times passed, I've never stood on the summit!
Thanks for your words. I don't think that going up the summit itself is a must for anybody. I would more discourage people doing it. I did it just in order to create a complete page for SP, having some summit photos, too. But I went up extremely carefully, because the vegetation is very vulnerable there. Anyweay the view from the 2 saddles nearby are almost as good as from the peak
Do you think that it can be considered as belonging both to the High Tartras and to he Belianske Tatra/ Or only to the Belianske Tatra? If the latter, then based on what source do you think it is so? (I don't ask it from you because I'm a bad man, just I want to make sure that scientifically everything is all right)
I'd say because it is limestone !
But yes, it lies a bit in the middle of the two, and I would keep it attached to both, partly also because there is none of the main mountains yet in Belianske (such as Havran, Muran, etc) and it makes no sense right now to detach it from main Tatras...
You are right: I mentioned it in the description, too, that by its material (limestone) it belongs to the Belianske while topographically it belongs to the High Tatras. I myself considered the topographic aspect more important, but you are right: if it's possible to create double parental relationship in the DB, then why not to do it?
Sure !
Btw, just one remark, but don't take it as offensive. I know that Slovakia once belonged to Hungary, but on SP we normally put mountain names into the language of the place they are located in. In few cases, when on the border (ex: polish-slovak) we put both, but only this case. I never put french names of spanish mountains in the page titles, except when on the border. I would consider keeping the hungarian name (along with the german name) in the introduction, but not on the title
Hi Eric,
No, I don't take your comment offensive, don't worry. I'm aware of the sensitivity of this question and I know that it is the Hungarian labeling that can be offensive for some people. So I was hestitating when deciding about putting there the Hungarian name, too. But finally I decided to put it there. Why? You know, 90 years ago when Slowakia was created artificially, 1/3 of the population was Hungarian on its area. In the last 90 years every official attampt tried to remove all traces of Hungarian language, including the placenames of villages and hills, too. For me it's part of a mission to balance the negative effects of this policy. Different placenames on many languages represent value. They shouldn't disappear. If these names are not made clear for as many people as possible, then they will disappear. Anyway, just to prove that I'm not only on favour of Hungarian placenames in Slowakia, if anybody interested in it, I collected many unknown and lost placenames on the current area of Hungary, too. And I studied placenames in many other languages and ares, too...
You say that placenames are kept only on border areas in SP. Yes, I know that it's the usual way in SP, though surely you also know that all peaks are given in 2 languages in South Tyrol. OK, this is a different situation because Germans in Souh Tyrol are in the lucky situation that they gained autonomy. But there are a few cases when the SP author gave the name of the peak in the language of the minority, too. I know such examples in SP for many peaks in Friaul in Italy (added Slowenian language) and in Transylvania (added Hungarian language). The Belianska Kopa page is just a modest example of these types of pages. I'm sorry for the long explanation, just I tried to make clear why I did it. I hope I didn't offend you neither, and also Slowakian readers accept that their Hungarian minorities must have some cultural right beside the evident right of Slowakians there.
And just a personal reason for all this: my family is from a city that currently is in Slowakia. It's only in 40 km distance from the High Tatra. We had lands around the city on the hills, houses in the city centre, and a few of my great-grandfathers were mayors of that city. Though the Czechoslowakian state was so kind to confiscate all our properties, I must struggle with these very weak tools to save at least something from the culture.
Cheers, Szani
Jo napot Szani !
I know quite well (I mean for a french) all the topics you wrote about. I had a gilfriend from Szeged some ... 9 years ago (wow, time goes fast..) I fully agree with all the topics you raised, about languages, cultures, etc (I am myself a little-son of friulan immigrants who escaped Musolini), but my remark concerned the title and only the title. Imagine for a slovak peak on the polish border: name in slovak, hungarian, and polish ! on the left panel where are summarized all peaks of the area, your peak name will take 4 lines... that's why in my humble opinion we should make as pragmatic as possible. The overview after is made to mention all such contents as you wrote.
Central Europe is a terrible mess where, unlike Western Europe, all popolations were mixed through the ages including recently. re-drawing maps is simply impossible. The schengen space seems to be the best thing so far...
Coming back to those peaks, it's up to you. Recently with Yatsek we wrote the Sudetes page. Often, there is a name in czech, polish, german. With all the politics behind you may know too. We always tried to make it as pragmatic as possible, otherwise it's an ass-killing task...
Yes, I understand the pagmatic approach, too. Still, I would like to keep it as it is, until it doesn't become evident that the double name creates considerable problems. Can you accept that I keep it as it and if concerns are raised by other SP members, too, then I revise my position?
Sure ! Well, I don't have to "accept" it or not... this is your page :) If you fell some issues need to be discussed, there is the forum and the topic "PL-CZ-SK-HU team". Team work is always constructive ! :) Have a nice week end !
Tomek Lodowy - Aug 9, 2009 7:34 pm - Voted 10/10
niceone of my favourite areas, Dolina Bielych Plies is a magic place especially out of the highest summer season. Nice page about the peak that has always remided me ...a loaf of bread. Anyway thousand times passed, I've never stood on the summit!
Tomek
SzaniUherkovich - Aug 9, 2009 7:56 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: niceThanks for your words. I don't think that going up the summit itself is a must for anybody. I would more discourage people doing it. I did it just in order to create a complete page for SP, having some summit photos, too. But I went up extremely carefully, because the vegetation is very vulnerable there. Anyweay the view from the 2 saddles nearby are almost as good as from the peak
visentin - Jan 8, 2010 8:00 am - Voted 10/10
Re: niceI think you should attach it to Belianske tatry :
http://www.summitpost.org/area/range/324758/belianske-tatry.html
SzaniUherkovich - Jan 8, 2010 10:10 am - Hasn't voted
Re: niceDo you think that it can be considered as belonging both to the High Tartras and to he Belianske Tatra/ Or only to the Belianske Tatra? If the latter, then based on what source do you think it is so? (I don't ask it from you because I'm a bad man, just I want to make sure that scientifically everything is all right)
SzaniUherkovich - Jan 8, 2010 10:12 am - Hasn't voted
Re: niceAnd thanks for your vote!
visentin - Jan 8, 2010 11:31 am - Voted 10/10
Re: niceI'd say because it is limestone !
But yes, it lies a bit in the middle of the two, and I would keep it attached to both, partly also because there is none of the main mountains yet in Belianske (such as Havran, Muran, etc) and it makes no sense right now to detach it from main Tatras...
SzaniUherkovich - Jan 8, 2010 3:06 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: niceYou are right: I mentioned it in the description, too, that by its material (limestone) it belongs to the Belianske while topographically it belongs to the High Tatras. I myself considered the topographic aspect more important, but you are right: if it's possible to create double parental relationship in the DB, then why not to do it?
visentin - Jan 9, 2010 4:21 am - Voted 10/10
Re: niceSure !
Btw, just one remark, but don't take it as offensive. I know that Slovakia once belonged to Hungary, but on SP we normally put mountain names into the language of the place they are located in. In few cases, when on the border (ex: polish-slovak) we put both, but only this case. I never put french names of spanish mountains in the page titles, except when on the border. I would consider keeping the hungarian name (along with the german name) in the introduction, but not on the title
SzaniUherkovich - Jan 9, 2010 10:09 am - Hasn't voted
Re: niceHi Eric,
No, I don't take your comment offensive, don't worry. I'm aware of the sensitivity of this question and I know that it is the Hungarian labeling that can be offensive for some people. So I was hestitating when deciding about putting there the Hungarian name, too. But finally I decided to put it there. Why? You know, 90 years ago when Slowakia was created artificially, 1/3 of the population was Hungarian on its area. In the last 90 years every official attampt tried to remove all traces of Hungarian language, including the placenames of villages and hills, too. For me it's part of a mission to balance the negative effects of this policy. Different placenames on many languages represent value. They shouldn't disappear. If these names are not made clear for as many people as possible, then they will disappear. Anyway, just to prove that I'm not only on favour of Hungarian placenames in Slowakia, if anybody interested in it, I collected many unknown and lost placenames on the current area of Hungary, too. And I studied placenames in many other languages and ares, too...
You say that placenames are kept only on border areas in SP. Yes, I know that it's the usual way in SP, though surely you also know that all peaks are given in 2 languages in South Tyrol. OK, this is a different situation because Germans in Souh Tyrol are in the lucky situation that they gained autonomy. But there are a few cases when the SP author gave the name of the peak in the language of the minority, too. I know such examples in SP for many peaks in Friaul in Italy (added Slowenian language) and in Transylvania (added Hungarian language). The Belianska Kopa page is just a modest example of these types of pages. I'm sorry for the long explanation, just I tried to make clear why I did it. I hope I didn't offend you neither, and also Slowakian readers accept that their Hungarian minorities must have some cultural right beside the evident right of Slowakians there.
And just a personal reason for all this: my family is from a city that currently is in Slowakia. It's only in 40 km distance from the High Tatra. We had lands around the city on the hills, houses in the city centre, and a few of my great-grandfathers were mayors of that city. Though the Czechoslowakian state was so kind to confiscate all our properties, I must struggle with these very weak tools to save at least something from the culture.
Cheers, Szani
visentin - Jan 9, 2010 3:46 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: niceJo napot Szani !
I know quite well (I mean for a french) all the topics you wrote about. I had a gilfriend from Szeged some ... 9 years ago (wow, time goes fast..) I fully agree with all the topics you raised, about languages, cultures, etc (I am myself a little-son of friulan immigrants who escaped Musolini), but my remark concerned the title and only the title. Imagine for a slovak peak on the polish border: name in slovak, hungarian, and polish ! on the left panel where are summarized all peaks of the area, your peak name will take 4 lines... that's why in my humble opinion we should make as pragmatic as possible. The overview after is made to mention all such contents as you wrote.
Central Europe is a terrible mess where, unlike Western Europe, all popolations were mixed through the ages including recently. re-drawing maps is simply impossible. The schengen space seems to be the best thing so far...
Coming back to those peaks, it's up to you. Recently with Yatsek we wrote the Sudetes page. Often, there is a name in czech, polish, german. With all the politics behind you may know too. We always tried to make it as pragmatic as possible, otherwise it's an ass-killing task...
SzaniUherkovich - Jan 9, 2010 5:30 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: niceYes, I understand the pagmatic approach, too. Still, I would like to keep it as it is, until it doesn't become evident that the double name creates considerable problems. Can you accept that I keep it as it and if concerns are raised by other SP members, too, then I revise my position?
visentin - Jan 10, 2010 2:51 am - Voted 10/10
Re: niceSure ! Well, I don't have to "accept" it or not... this is your page :) If you fell some issues need to be discussed, there is the forum and the topic "PL-CZ-SK-HU team". Team work is always constructive ! :) Have a nice week end !
visentin - Jan 13, 2010 6:08 am - Voted 10/10
additionhttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=354047
SzaniUherkovich - Jan 13, 2010 9:48 am - Hasn't voted
Re: additionThanks, I linked it to the Belianska Kopa page. I suppose the photo was taken from Velka Svistovka