I did however want to make a suggestion. I am an active member of San Diego Grotto and have been to Thunder Canyon cave. This is not a cave that people should wander into or find by chance.
There are mutiple rappels, potential for running water, and a very very tight squeeze that many people get stuck in. To make matters worse, recently a debate has been going on about the placed protection in the squeeze and it might have been removed.
As a rock climber as well, I first found it to be incredibly frustrating that the Grotto does not release the location of the caves. But that is before I saw what people have done to caves like Alpine Cave or others like it. Besides the inherit danger and remoteness of the caves.
So if you please, could you either further dull down the directions to the cave ( I know they are vague, but some people are rather determined ) or add a warning about the seriousness of the cave.
It really should not be attempted by anyone who has not had caving experience or is at least with a caver as it does require specialized gear.
Thank you very much, and might I say it really was a nice page.
Sure, N.P. I muted the description down even more. I am not a caver so I was a little baffled by secrecy. As I am sure you are aware, for climbs you can get descriptions that are almost hold by hold. The most damaging thing I have ever seen on climbs are the old piton scars, and really, that damage is very low.
Are the people attracted to caves just "different"? I mean are they more destructive, are there more unprepared people? I am just trying to wrap my head around the difference in behavior that you have seen in caves (bad) to the behavior that I see at crags (mostly respectful).
Thank you very much. I don't think people are different. Cavers are just like climbers (I am both), we are respectful and friendly 95% of the time. Normally, the destruction comes from people who are just a group of kids or such. They leave graffiti and break formations, it's very sad. A true caver would never do that.
In this cave, it's not so much about avoiding destruction, though there are a couple formations that should be preserved, it's mostly about keeping people safe. This just is not a cave you want to get in trouble in.
For another view of Carrizo Gorge, here's a VR tour (click the red hotspots) that follows the RR tracks SW from the Goat Canyon Trestle to De Anza Springs:
http://www.allaroundnevada.com/impossible-railroad/
PrestonRhea - May 21, 2009 10:55 am - Voted 10/10
Thunder Canyon CaveFirst off, great page, I really enjoyed it.
I did however want to make a suggestion. I am an active member of San Diego Grotto and have been to Thunder Canyon cave. This is not a cave that people should wander into or find by chance.
There are mutiple rappels, potential for running water, and a very very tight squeeze that many people get stuck in. To make matters worse, recently a debate has been going on about the placed protection in the squeeze and it might have been removed.
As a rock climber as well, I first found it to be incredibly frustrating that the Grotto does not release the location of the caves. But that is before I saw what people have done to caves like Alpine Cave or others like it. Besides the inherit danger and remoteness of the caves.
So if you please, could you either further dull down the directions to the cave ( I know they are vague, but some people are rather determined ) or add a warning about the seriousness of the cave.
It really should not be attempted by anyone who has not had caving experience or is at least with a caver as it does require specialized gear.
Thank you very much, and might I say it really was a nice page.
-Preston
jmc - May 21, 2009 1:19 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Thunder Canyon CaveSure, N.P. I muted the description down even more. I am not a caver so I was a little baffled by secrecy. As I am sure you are aware, for climbs you can get descriptions that are almost hold by hold. The most damaging thing I have ever seen on climbs are the old piton scars, and really, that damage is very low.
Are the people attracted to caves just "different"? I mean are they more destructive, are there more unprepared people? I am just trying to wrap my head around the difference in behavior that you have seen in caves (bad) to the behavior that I see at crags (mostly respectful).
PrestonRhea - May 21, 2009 3:35 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Thunder Canyon CaveThank you very much. I don't think people are different. Cavers are just like climbers (I am both), we are respectful and friendly 95% of the time. Normally, the destruction comes from people who are just a group of kids or such. They leave graffiti and break formations, it's very sad. A true caver would never do that.
In this cave, it's not so much about avoiding destruction, though there are a couple formations that should be preserved, it's mostly about keeping people safe. This just is not a cave you want to get in trouble in.
aenghus - Dec 31, 2015 10:24 am - Hasn't voted
VR tour on the RR tracksFor another view of Carrizo Gorge, here's a VR tour (click the red hotspots) that follows the RR tracks SW from the Goat Canyon Trestle to De Anza Springs:
http://www.allaroundnevada.com/impossible-railroad/