Another Pet Peave - something to think about.

by **Guyzo** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:41 pm

I usually climb sport and am accustomed to all manner of sh-t going down between Leaders and Belayers and the way they communicate with each other. I am sure some climbers think I am really dangerous because I don't talk much or yell out the "standard commands".

When I start up, I just look at the belayer and if he looks back at me, I climb.

I get to the shuts, I clip a draw into each, clip the rope and fall off.

Look down at belayer, make eye contact, Thumbs up means "dirt"

I only use these commands, "Take" "dirt" or "Off Belay" ---- that one means "I will rap down on my own"

But when Trad climbing its different, you can get along ways away from your belayer and eye contact is usually not possible.

I just say "on-belay" and start belaying.

Rope 1/2 way mark gets to my device I yell.... "halfway"

Rope gets to that 10 meter mark I yell.... "30 feet"

Then count down, 20, 10, "thats me"

If it keeps going I take em off belay and yell.... "Thats me, climbing" and I start up, being careful not to outrun the "belay"....

This has served me and my partners for a long time.

While at Josh last week I was witness to all sorts of screwball stuff.

Like this: Climber starts up after usual -belay on, belay on- deal, he gets up near the top, and says something like this: "almost there, do I have enuf rope?"

Belayer says "yup"

Climber hears it as "nope" .... this starts the questioning back and forth.... they finally work it out that he has lots of rope left..... :roll:

Leader gets to the ledge and says..... "Just give me some time to set up a belay....."

The belayer responds, "what?" "Off Belay?"

Leader goes "no no" "I need to build an anchor- wait a second"

Belayer.... "what?"

Belayer.... "can I climb?"

Belayer.... "do you have an anchor?"

Belayer.... "up rope please"

The leader starts to pull up the cord and asks: "are you tied in?"

Belayer.... "lots of rope down here to pull up"

Leader... "what? are you tied in?"

Belayer.... "still losts of rope"

Leader "well please tie in"

Belayer (who is already tied in) "rope"

Leader "nope!!! why not?"

Belayer.... "I need my shoes" "Let me put them on"

Leader.... "What?"

This went on and on ..... sort of like an Abbott and Costello routine. It got really old having these guys climbing on the same formation as us.

Ever have stuff like this go on with you?

Sometimes I feel like going over and telling them to "shut up please, you are giving me a headache and I can't hear my boom - box above your yelling" ..... :roll:

by **outofstep80** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:16 pm

Yeah, it's nice to get that stuff worked out before you start climbing.

I was at RRG a few weeks back and overheard an equally commical converstation about a route's grade.

climber "I know this route is rated a 10b but that move is definitely a 9+"
belayer "Yeah but the crux move is like a 10c"
climber "that move that I just did while you were talking was definitely a 10a"
belayer "that's cause you used the crappy crimp, 10" further to your right is a better crimp that makes that move closer to 8d. I'm pretty sure I did that move as a 10a the first time I did the route also. I thought the whole route was closer to a 10c then.
climber "yeah, but it definitely seems more like a 10a route....just because of the one move though"

This converstation went on for about 10 mintes until the guy finished the route. It furnished us with hilarity the remainder of the weekend. I'm sure I've had my fair share of equally lame converstations.

Not really a safety issue but non-the-less funny. Just thought I would share.

by **MBS1017** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:20 pm

yell ROPE!! Twice

+1

by **ksolem** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:07 pm

Buried in Guyzo's humorous dialog is this gem: "That one means I'll rap off on my own."

Never say off belay when you are planning to be lowered from the anchor. This has caused fatal accidents.

It nearly happened on my watch a couple summer ago. My partner, who was toproping the pitch, got to the anchors and yelled down "Off Belay." I took him off and walked 10 feet across the ledge at the base to talk with someone. Then I hear the guy yell "Take!" Lucky for him the top was a slab and he was kind of lowering himself out as I lept across and grabbed the rope.

Whether you're leading or following, when you arrive at an anchor you intend to be lowered from say nothing. Just set it up and then yell take.

by **aemter** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:46 pm

ksolem wrote:
Never say off belay when you are planning to be lowered from the anchor. This has caused fatal accidents.

I must say I broke this rule my first time climbing last month. Lucky for me, my friends knew I was not "off belay" and what I meant was that I was at the top of the pitch and I wanted to take a breather and enjoy the view before I got lowered.

by **ShortTimer** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:29 am

And just yelling 'rope,rope!' is not sufficient. Yell the first time, wait a bit a listen for any comments. After at least 5 seconds and no comments yell it again louder. After another 5 seconds toss the thing.

If it is really busy, like Malibu can get, don't toss the rope at all, lower each end. This is usually easy to do on overhanging routes.

by **welle** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:57 pm

outofstep80 wrote:
climber "I know this route is rated a 10b but that move is definitely a 9+"
belayer "Yeah but the crux move is like a 10c"
climber "that move that I just did while you were talking was definitely a 10a"
belayer "that's cause you used the crappy crimp, 10" further to your right is a better crimp that makes that move closer to 8d. I'm pretty sure I did that move as a 10a the first time I did the route also. I thought the whole route was closer to a 10c then.
climber "yeah, but it definitely seems more like a 10a route....just because of the one move though"

Sounds like a good material for an Xtranormal film!

by **CClaude** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:52 pm

squishy wrote:One of my pet pevs is people who yell ROPE!!! then throw the rope on all the people down below who are now looking up...YELL ROPE TWICE!!! Especially at crowded outdoor gym like crags...Spread this info...

Always yell rope twice, the 1st time everyone will look up to see where it's coming from and will get it in the face. When yelling rock people tend to simply duck and don't bother looking up when they should in case they need to move aside (I've failed to do this and almost got one of the biggest biners in exsistance up my ass while I was ducking), rocks are uncontrolled, ropes are controlled so be sure to yell twice, just because you can, if anything else...

and yell it before you throw the rope.

When I was climbing in the gunks quite a bit years ago, I was on a X-rated route. At the time I was 45ft up the climb and my first piece of gear was yet 15ft above me and into the crux. This guy throws down a rope to TR it. He throws the rope down. I scream at him as I get hit squarely with it and it nearly peels me off, but I barely recovered. After that he yells rope. I get to the top of the climb and he bitches me out.

by **mvs** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:39 pm

CClaude wrote:..
When I was climbing in the gunks quite a bit years ago, I was on a X-rated route. At the time I was 45ft up the climb and my first piece of gear was yet 15ft above me and into the crux. This guy throws down a rope to TR it. He throws the rope down. I scream at him as I get hit squarely with it and it nearly peels me off, but I barely recovered. After that he yells rope. I get to the top of the climb and he bitches me out.

No way!

Definitely the less said the better. My pet peeve is something that happens when climbing with somebody I don't know that well. If they are leading and reach a belay, then shout "off belay!" then at that point I'm removing the rope from the belay device. I don't say anything until the rope is free, then I'll shout "belay off, <name>!"

But this takes about 10 seconds before I can respond. The person will give me about 3 seconds then say "I said belay off! Didja hear me? Belay OFF! Didja?" or whatever. Argh! Then I have to get all verbal and say "One moment. I am removing the rope from the belay device...<etc>." Then of course I hear..."what?!". :lol:

by **welle** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:48 pm

My big pet peeve is "I'm safe" instead of "Off belay", as if the leader has been unsafe before they reached the belay. Funny thing they usually say that before anchoring and getting to be truly "safe"...

by **Alpinisto** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:27 pm

mvs wrote:
CClaude wrote:
Definitely the less said the better. My pet peeve is something that happens when climbing with somebody I don't know that well. If they are leading and reach a belay, then shout "off belay!" then at that point I'm removing the rope from the belay device. I don't say anything until the rope is free, then I'll shout "belay off, <name>!"

But this takes about 10 seconds before I can respond. The person will give me about 3 seconds then say "I said belay off! Didja hear me? Belay OFF! Didja?" or whatever. Argh! Then I have to get all verbal and say "One moment. I am removing the rope from the belay device...<etc>." Then of course I hear..."what?!".

At crowded crags, you might do even better to yell "<Name>, off belay!" rather than "Off belay, <name>!" Hearing their name first will (hopefully) snap a daydreaming belayer back to attention enough to hear the "off belay" part. By saying their name at the end, you may be more likely to get a "What?" rather than a "Belay off" response. :roll:

Rather than wait to unthread the belay device before responding with "Belay off", my partner and I confirm immediately, but the now-anchored leader waits 10-15 seconds for the belayer to unthread the belay device to start yarding in slack.

Works for us; YMMV.

by **Moni** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:39 am

mvs wrote:Definitely the less said the better. My pet peeve is something that happens when climbing with somebody I don't know that well. If they are leading and reach a belay, then shout "off belay!" then at that point I'm removing the rope from the belay device. I don't say anything until the rope is free, then I'll shout "belay off, <name>!"

But this takes about 10 seconds before I can respond. The person will give me about 3 seconds then say "I said belay off! Didja hear me? Belay OFF! Didja?" or whatever. Argh! Then I have to get all verbal and say "One moment. I am removing the rope from the belay device...<etc>." Then of course I hear..."what?!".

I relate! Fred and I have it worked out - but if I am climbing with somebody I don't climb with often, they think it must take nanoseconds to undo the belay device. I have had them then start hauling up the slack and nearly lost my ATV, because they couldn't wait for me to confirm that I have removed the belay.

BTW, Guyzo's command series for trad is about what Fred and I use. Occasionally there are variants - but only when we are in visual contact and feel silly. Otherwise, this is serious stuff.

by **Moni** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:16 pm

squishy wrote:If "V" wasn't so close to "C" on the keyboard, I would call you a noob right now...

Yea - and I wasn't wearing my glasses - not a good idea when typing.

by **ksolem** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:40 pm

When my leader yells "OFF BELAY," I prepare to remove the rope from the device but answer "BELAY OFF" just before actually doing so just in case there was some communication error. If you are ready to unscrew the locking gate and remove the rope, it only takes a second after verifying that it is the right time to do so. I think this is really important if there are any other parties climbing nearby, where the chance of crossed signals exists. And of course using first names can help as well although I got taken off belay while leading once when some one else had a belayer with the same name...

Another Pet Peave - something to think about.

Another Pet Peave - something to think about.

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