MikeTX wrote:

Ice9 wrote:

MikeTX wrote:what's local etiquette for when you launch a rock? how do you protect your belay if he can't hear you?

Pretty much the same as if you are in the mountains and cannot hear your leader. Wear a helmet and keep a sharp eye out.

well, i think you handled the situation fine. but i also would've not been happy to have a rope come zipping down on top of me with no warning. i wouldn't have reacted the same as your "friend" - not my stlye. but safety and consideration for others at the crag are always a nice thing. of course, if you have a "locals only" attitude, that probably doesn't matter.

Definitely not a locals only attitude, but you cannot hear anyone from the top of the crag. Thus we have adopted a system that lets us know. I was the only one there when I arrived and you cannot see the bottom of this climb from the top.

Also snaking the rope down is not an option as it would get stuck. My attitude, as learned from the older climbers when I was learning to climb is always be aware at the bottom of any cliff and expect something to come down.

D. Other (lowered the ropes and rapped down them if they tangled up) - you can't expect everybody at your crag being local and familiar with the etiquette...

edited to add: rappel only if ropes get stuck

Definitely not a locals only attitude, but you cannot hear anyone from the top of the crag.

This crag must be located directly over a 12 lane freeway?

I mean the maximum height is 200', and that is if you are top roping with 2 60M ropes. A loud shout over the edge of "ROPE!!" cannot be heard at the base?

The reason you guys can't hear is that you've all gone deaf climbing in that much noise. You can get a cheap sound pressure level meter at radio shack.


If it indicates an ambient noise level of more than 86 dB get ear protection.

Good point, Kris!

Also, the correct etiquette for throwing ropes is to yell "Rope" twice, wait a moment and only then throw the ropes. Too often people yell "Rope" as they throw it - annoys heck out of me...

ksolem wrote:

Definitely not a locals only attitude, but you cannot hear anyone from the top of the crag.

This crag must be located directly over a 12 lane freeway?

I mean the maximum height is 200', and that is if you are top roping with 2 60M ropes. A loud shout over the edge of "ROPE!!" cannot be heard at the base?

The reason you guys can't hear is that you've all gone deaf climbing in that much noise. You can get a cheap sound pressure level meter at radio shack.


If it indicates an ambient noise level of more than 86 dB get ear protection.

It is about 300 feet from a two lane route on which cars drive about 60mph. Cliff height is about 80 feet. It is through a pass and the acoustics serve to amplify the sound of the cars, believe me you cannot hear people on the bottom from the top.

Also in regards to rappeling, I had never thought about that but I normally do not rappel at TR crags. Rappeling is dangerous when not necessary and many very experienced climbers and mountaineers have been hurt this way, many at the local crag where your guard is down.

Also I welcome anyone to my local crags but I think you have to respect the locals and the local etiquette. I calmly told these two what the procedure was at this crag and they got very hostile with me.

ok, I just went back and edited my response. I meant to say, I'd rappel only if the ropes get tangled or stuck during the lower off. What is so dangerous about the single pitch rappel? The anchor? Then you shouldn't be top roping off it, if you are nervous about the rappel itself, use autoblock and let your partner give you a fireman's belay. Most rappelling accidents occur from crappy anchors or rapping off the ends of the ropes, if you are setting up a top rope your anchor should be bomber and both of your rope ends should be on the ground. But you are right, I wouldn't advocate any unnecessary rappels - only do it if your rope gets stuck. In that case you SHOULD BE USING THE AUTOBLOCK or some other way to backup your rappel.

welle wrote:ok, I just went back and edited my response. I meant to say, I'd rappel only if the ropes get tangled or stuck during the lower off. What is so dangerous about the single pitch rappel? The anchor? Then you shouldn't be top roping off it, if you are nervous about the rappel itself, use autoblock and let your partner give you a fireman's belay. Most rappelling accidents occur from crappy anchors or rapping off the ends of the ropes, if you are setting up a top rope your anchor should be bomber and both of your rope ends should be on the ground. But you are right, I wouldn't advocate any unnecessary rappels - only do it if your rope gets stuck. In that case you SHOULD BE USING THE AUTOBLOCK or some other way to backup your rappel.

The danger is because to rig a good TR (at least at this crag) your anchor is well over the side of the cliff, in order to reduce friction over sharp trap rock. This means you cannot really safely rappel, at least not off the TR itself. I am well aware of autoblocks and SERENE anchors.

How about if you or one of your friends is warming up on the wall. What if he or she is way up above the ground and some "local" climber just throws the rope? What if the rope hits them & knocks them off? What if the rope just knocks off a rock that hits your soloing girlfriend? Or what if you throw your rope next time & hit some little kid that is close to the base? How will you feel then? Sure you could cling to your 'we have always done it this way' or 'you should know better than to walk close to our gear at the base' reasoning but you will still be WRONG!

I would feel horrible if I accidentally hurt someone due to my rush to get my toprope up. Just take an extra minute to be safe.

Wes

Oops.

Just read my post. Sorry, I did not mean to go aggro.



It's just, I have had the rope dropped on or very near me two times when I was way too high to fall. One time some guys were soloing around on Trashcan and after a while they got out the rope went to the top and just threw it on me while I was climbing. Never called Rope nothing! You would think those guys would know better. Another time I was just getting to the large ledge, read exposed slaby move, on Intersection Rock when a rope came down from the top. I almost jumped right off!!

I guess both times I was still a little ticked off when I caught up to the rope throwers. No punches or anything just a few words exchanged.

Wes

I agree with you about personal responsibility & all that has been posted above. Also I think the OP handeled the situation just fine. No body was permanently injured or worse.

It just that some people will be 'lucky' for a long time then when 'something' happens & things go 'wrong' their defense is 'well it never happened before or it was an accident or keep your kids away from the base' like that will make it all better.

Not saying that's how you will react.

IMHO

Wes

Ice9 wrote:Also snaking the rope down is not an option as it would get stuck. My attitude, as learned from the older climbers when I was learning to climb is always be aware at the bottom of any cliff and expect something to come down.

Would it work if you threw enough rope down to get the ends within a few meters of the ground, then slowly lowered it the last few meters? Just trying to think of a safer alternative, although I agree that people at the bottom of a route should be prepared for things falling, and you handled the situation well.

Knoback you think like I do on this subject. In fact you make my argument for me. The part before guys yelling at eachother. Thank you very much. I'm just on the side of looking, thinking, anticipating ahead to what might happen in the Worse case. Sounds like you do to. I guess I only replied because of thoes solo guys throwing their rope on me. Hit a nerve. Being a dad I often think of the safety of others too, especially kids.

By the way if you get in a fender bender, even a minor one, you are in for a big headache & many hours of grief. Depositions, lawyers, court, insurance company issues, car repair estimates & on & on & on for YEARS. It really is crazy the amount of time is wasted. I'm just sayin I would rather take a little extra time to not cause an accident, while driving a car or setting up my top rope.

Wes