MoapaPk wrote:"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

That is a funny quote (I'm still chuckling)...

AlpineAffinity wrote:Mark Twight anyone?

Yep, I was gonna mention him earlier. He pretty much deserves his own thread, but, not really. I've read some of his stuff and enjoy bits of it, but, while he used to be among the elite of climbers, his self-proclaimed elitism turns me off.
A friend of mine just wrote me these words last night, telling me a friend told him a long time ago:
"empty barrel make a lot of noise."

McCannster wrote:Know an elitist?

I think this is a stupid topic and you're all a bunch of idiots but I can't say I know any off hand. How about you Chief?

I don't know that I am an elitist, the definition of which is to believe that some select class of people deserve special priviledges or powers.

But I do generally enjoy being in the company of elite people, people who are among the very best at something. It usually makes for a very exciting and highly charged atmosphere. Musicians, climbers, writers, whoever... I know that when I am with elite climbers I will take it more seriously, perform better and benefit from the experience.

As far as someone being a jerk, I think that has very little to do with being elite. And of course some folks just aren't happy unles they're the big dog. It's all about being comfy in your own skin.

That is a nicer word...

ksolem wrote:
But I do generally enjoy being in the company of elite people, people who are among the very best at something. It usually makes for a very exciting and highly charged atmosphere. Musicians, climbers, writers, whoever... .

+ 1

One of the reasons I live in NYC.

I can think of a few "elitists" you speak of. They have unwavering conviction, bigger-than-life personalities. It's something I admire. They likely wouldn't give an ounce of care about what you do or how or why you climb, provided you leave no trace of your ascent. That makes them less imposing than one might assume.

Climbing is about fun for you? It's a pure art and craft for others. A livelihood and lifestyle. Perhaps that's why they take it more seriously. But to me, it's a miserable addiction full of masochism and egotism, and occasionally introspection in relevance to nature, that I need to grow out of. If only ...

ExcitibleBoy wrote:I have had the pleasure of climbing with some very elite alpinists, some of them you have heard of, others who have soloed WI 7 that you will never hear of. I am struck by how down to earth and humble they are relative to the guys that climb 5.10 at the gym and think they are hot shit.

I've had the same experience with most of the pro climbers/boulderers I've met.

I'm not sure everyone agrees on what the definition of an elitist is. Or elitism, or any of that shit, for that matter. I've never been good enough to be any kind of elite anything, so I of course wouldn't know.

I would say that I don't have one damned problem with the climbers who are good... the guy who barefoot soloed up a 5.11 to get my buddy's gear, the guy who gave me beta on a couple Teton lines and never mentioned how he'd done them 4,328 times and pioneered others, the 84-year old guide who had tons of first ascents who just said "sure" when my awestruck partner asked him "are you _____?!?!?!?" ... those guys.

The folks I don't enjoy being around are the guy who dropped some famous climber's name every second sentence (including giving nicknames to climbers who died before he was born), the guy who wouldn't let me get to sleep at the camp because he's busy bragging on his climbs, the guy in Bolivia who just rolled his eyes and turned away when my friend asked him if he'd climbed much in the Tetons... those guys. Hell, a little chest-thumping is understandable, but the folks I have the most respect for are the ones who've done the mad climbs and don't posture, act snotty, or brag endlessly about them.

Blakeman wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elitism

Right back at ya.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elite

Scroll down to b.

b.The best or most skilled members of a group.

Whatever the definition, I think it's fine to be in the elite club of whatever one does, be that a professional basketball(insert whatever sport you want here________), player, Ceo, or whatever, including being one of the elite climbers of the world. They have my utmost respect for the climbs they've done, and for taking climbing to that higher level. This from mostly an armchair climber, though I'm slowly working my way up.
What bugs me is when elitism begets arrogance, though as many have mentioned here, that is not always the case. I'm sure drinking a beer with Twight(since a few have brought his name up here, and he seems to be an example of elitism), would be fun, perhaps. But, reading his stuff, he admits to being elitist, at the same time he scorns the "novices" climbing up the cattle path of the west buttress of Denali. Not the only example where he scorns those seemingly beneath him. This I call arrogance, and I would much rather climb with some of the people he scorns who he has in fact climbed with. Yes, I wasn't there, don't know all the facts, but, he sure heaps some shit on a few of them for not matching his level of "elitism."

Elite vs Elitism. I'm talking about the elitists who practice elitism. All elitists are member of the elite, but not all members of the elite are elitists...wait, what?

I agree with "Loco", it isn't really the definition of the word but the attitude of the climber. A lot of people see the word as a person who acts, talks, performs, etc in manner that he or she is better than others and need to boast about it. At the end of the day if your back at camp and the guy who just did El Capitan doesn't give the time of day to the guy who just did a class 2 scramble isn't worth a dime. Those type of climbers are just like the elitest snobs at the high society functions. Better off not paying them any attention. They can all get togther and do a circle jerk.

That's pretty much what I'm talking about in my above post. I think it's called Arrogance.

Ditto that, dskoon