Fletch wrote:Wow... some real climbing snobs here...

Anybody want to drag me up Everest, I'm pretty sure I can pencil you in...

Turning down a climb on Everest is like turning down an invite from Hef for a night at the mansion... snap out of it people!

Way to go Cindy and good luck on raising money for a good cause...

Hehe, Dow turned it down for his own reasons and I have mine. Just because you climb and love the mountains doesn't mean you dream of being on top of Everest. Not everyone wants the same things out of the mountains - doesn't make someone a snob for wanting something different.

And yes, what Cindy did certainly is worthy of notice. Congrats indeed.

Props on your successful summit, Cindy. Especially in light of such difficulties- I would be justifiably proud of myself (f&*$ what anyone else's opinion is). Having been on the top of Aconcagua, I know how difficult it is to simply put one foot in front of the other (let alone go higher, where there's less oxygen!). While this topic has been beaten to death a million times over, it won't be the last.

Is summiting Everest using supplementary oxygen while jugging fixed lines being shown where to go by Sherpas groundbreaking & will get you into Alpinist? No.

Is summiting an 8,000-m peak easy? No.

While summiting Everest via the S side is no alpine-style, no-supplemental-oxygen FA, I haven't noticed Steve House, Jack Tackle, etc. taking part in these discussions either... Point being, it's always easy to criticize from the sidelines. Most people do it around the water cooler talking about baseball, 'climbers' do it on internet message boards.

MScholes wrote:Turns out they offered me a spot on their Everest permit for 2011, I just pay my flight over, turned it down though simply because I have absolutely zero interest in south-east ridge and the "circus" that the route has become. Nor would I want to jump into that realm of altitude without being ready.

says the dude that climbed Kili, not a "circus" mountain at all.

FortMental wrote:Who's Will Gadd?

Isn't he the drummer in Clapton's touring band...

Bill Kerr wrote:Good post Dow - I loved the article by Will but I think people are getting too worked up about it. This is really Will trying to be funny in a tongue in cheek understated way with dry Canadian wit. He really doesn't care about how much motivation speaking gigs he gets.

Humour is best presented with some grain of truth or insight and he is making fun of how overpuffed some people get about having climbed Everest .
Climbing Everest is a big athletic achievement which people should be proud of but it is no longer a big climbing achievement by the tourist route, guided and with oxygen.
The public of course cannot differentiate between the two.

Anybody who calls out Will on not having summited Everest obviously has no understanding of his credentials as a climber. He has done things that only maybe 100 of the 4000 Everest summiters would be capable of.

Just to be clear, I wasn't calling out Will for not having summited Everest. I was calling him out for bluntly stating that climbing Everest is no bid deal. I'm positive you're right that he's done stuff that's way more difficult and skill intensive than Everest and that to him climbing Everest probably would in fact be no big deal.

There in an elitism inherent in mountaineering and I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing. But those who have earned the title and respect of an elite mountaineer shouldn't feel the need to remind the rest of the climbing community how much better than Everest they are.

Regardless of how we in the climbing community feel about the unexceptional masses of amateur climbers summiting the highest point on earth, the fact of the matter is that 99% of the general public is still going to consider climbing Everest as a remarkable achievement. And to be honest, why shouldn't they? If some overweight 5th grader gets inspired to lose weight by some rich dude who in all actuality got short roped up the South summit, the positive outweighs the negative in my opinion. The slight crime of misrepresentation is mostly victimless in this case (unless you happen to be competing for motivational speaking slots). I mean most people are captivated when I tell them about climbing Cotopaxi and Rainier!

So yeah, in short I think we all understand and sympathize with the problems the author has with the whole Everest situation. It just strikes a bit of a nerve when anyone reminds me how pathetic my climbing endeavors must be if Everest is no big deal. And again, try telling that to the families of the dead.

kevin trieu wrote:

MScholes wrote:Turns out they offered me a spot on their Everest permit for 2011, I just pay my flight over, turned it down though simply because I have absolutely zero interest in south-east ridge and the "circus" that the route has become. Nor would I want to jump into that realm of altitude without being ready.

says the dude that climbed Kili, not a "circus" mountain at all.

Heh, never said Kili wasn't a circus, but Kili isn't in the same league as Everest either. Also didn't say I wasn't one day interested in Everest, but right now, I have no business going there, I'd only clog up the place and put other people's lives in danger, to which I don't want any part of.

kerryob wrote:
Regardless of how we in the climbing community feel about the unexceptional masses of amateur climbers summiting the highest point on earth, the fact of the matter is that 99% of the general public is still going to consider climbing Everest as a remarkable achievement. And to be honest, why shouldn't they? If some overweight 5th grader gets inspired to lose weight by some rich dude who in all actuality got short roped up the South summit, the positive outweighs the negative in my opinion. The slight crime of misrepresentation is mostly victimless in this case (unless you happen to be competing for motivational speaking slots). I mean most people are captivated when I tell them about climbing Cotopaxi and Rainier!

That was really well said!

Dingus Milktoast wrote:Well if an elite mountaineer ever shows up on SP we can take it up then!

DMT

Bingo!

Will Gadd for anyone that may not know.

http://willgadd.com/athleteinfo.html

Yea, I think we have all agreed that it is OK to disagree (or rather respect other peoples' points of view).

When I decided to train for Everest I knew that it would take a lot of training and hard work but I really wanted to stand on the top of the world. I was doing it for completely personal reasons: I love a challenge. Then three months later I lose part of my vision and was diagnosed with a very serious, rare disease. It was very difficult for me to go public and turn what I thought was going to be a private experience into a public awareness event. I had to deal with the media (which is difficult but necessary for my new purpose). I spoke last weekend at the Vasculitis Symposium to an audience of doctors, researchers, and patients who were transfixed by my ability to summit Everest with my disease. It gave them great hope.

As for the crowds on the mountain: yea, we were all locked into a small window because of weather and it was crowded on summit day. I was impressed at how patient people were - considering the altitude and its effects. But the rest of the time we (5 climbers and two guides) were pretty much alone. We camped apart and climbed apart which I also liked.

Using oxygen: Well, my mask was broken (something happened at the Balcony. I knew it was broken but was not stopping) and the O2 flowed out the hole where the exhaust valve was suppose to be - does that count for no O2?

Guides: My guide is a great high-altitude guide and he is amazing at analyzing the weather situation. Sure you can climb the mountain without someone telling you where to go. His greatest value was watching the weather! Too many deaths have occurred on that mountain because of it and he has over 40 years of climbing experience.

It was an amazing experience to be standing at 21,500 ft (Camp 2) and watch as the Jet Stream returned to the summit! It was deadly beauty. Then the topical cyclone was coming in from India and the season was running out with the ladders in the Khumbu Icefall collapsing. We left for Camp 3 and the summit the next day.

I know where I stand in the level of mountaineering but summiting Mt. Everest was an amazing personal experience and now I can use it to help other people.

If you get offered a free trip - take it: just for the experience of standing on top of the world.

James_W wrote:Will Gadd for anyone that may not know.

http://willgadd.com/athleteinfo.html

Yeah, but I bet I could save a kitten better than he.

MoapaPk wrote:

James_W wrote:Will Gadd for anyone that may not know.

http://willgadd.com/athleteinfo.html

Yeah, but I bet I could save a kitten better than he.

On foot or in Paraglider?

CindyAbbott wrote:Thank you for writing this! There are many types and levels of climbers; and we all have our own motivations as to why we climb.

I paid a guide, used oxygen, and climbed on fixed lines. This does not mean I did not work to get up Everest. I teach by profession and climb as a hobby. How does this lessen my summiting of Mt. Everest? I experienced the physical and mental aspects of this 60-day expedition. I spend two months away from my family which was the most difficult part for me.

I do not compare my abilities to other cllimbers.
I climb for myself - as a personal challenge.

I will be writing a book and this is why:
Reaching Beyond the Clouds
From Undiagnosed to Climbing Mt. Everest

On August 7th 2007, I was diagnosed with Wegener’s Granulomatosis and on May 23rd 2010, I summited Mt. Everest. With a rare and potentially life-threatening disease, at the age of 51, and functionally blind in one eye: I joined the elite group of American females who have climbed the world’s tallest mountain. My journey to Mt. Everest began three years ago but, like so many other victims of rare unknown diseases, my story started more than a decade earlier.

We all have our own stories and should not be so quick to judge.
www.reachingbeyondtheclouds.com

Congratulations Cindy and good luck with your fundraising. This is the type of story I was talking about. I have a friend that has put up some amazing first ascents on extremely difficult terrain and his stories are truely captivating to me from a climber's view. However, I think stories like Cindy's would be quite motivational to a wider audience.

Climbing for the most part is a very self centered lifestyle. That is the truth that those of us who do log in many hours at the various disciplines find somewhat amusing. That sales people and the like pay to be inspired by someone who themselves paid 50K+/- to be guided up a non-technical route in some sort of a human train fashion?

True, it is human nature to want so badly to be inspired, that few look deep into the source of their potential inspiration. Folks are always surprised how the Madoff's of the world get by with it for so long. There are folks who make millions truly buying and selling real estate, stocks, etc, but sure in the hell are not going to share their formulas, none of which are earned without a lot of work and suffrage. Then there are guys making the easy money, selling the $99 audio cds on "how to get rich quick", writing books and putting on motivational seminars.

Selling inspiration and dreams based on as little time and experience vested as possible, the easiest con (and money) going. I am actually all for it, allow the fool and his/her money to part as fast as possible. Allow genetics to reign supreme. Always been my motto, but then I did grow up on a purebred livestock farm. Never attended a motivational seminar or speech in my life. For good or bad (prob bad) suppose I am the self motivated mean SOB type who has a hard time relating to the whole Everest saga.

CindyAbbott wrote:

I know where I stand in the level of mountaineering but summiting Mt. Everest was an amazing personal experience and now I can use it to help other people.

You're also to be commended for hanging in there (here) and coming back with reasoned, temperate replies to some who initially questioned your motivation for posting.