Hi guys,

I'm quite new to mountaineering but I've made couple of plans for my near future

In 6 weeks time I'm heading to tatra mountains for a winter mountaineering school.

Then in august I'm going to alps for another training and if I will have enough time I will do Elbrus in august as well.

My final goal is Aconcagua in January 2014.

I know that this is a lot of plans but can't help.

I would like to buy some gear for these trips ahead. Here is a list I've prepared already:

Head
Noth face corefire baclava polartec stretch
Julbo whoops spectron 3
Millet active wool (merino) beanie cap
Petzl Myo RXP
Petz Meteor III

Upper Body
Ortovox merino baselayer, 240 or 280 g / m2
Rab boulder pull on
Rab latok alpine jacket
Rab neutrino endurance jacket

Lower Body
Smartwool midweight bottom 250 g / m2
Salewa Terminal DST
Norh Face Strider Side Zip Pants

Feet
La sportiva ganda
Meindl air revolution 5.3
La sportiva baruntse
Black diamond apex gaiters

Hands
Black Diamond Specialist Glove
Black Diamond Mercury Mitt

Accessories & mountain gear
Deuter AirContact 65 + 10
Deuter AirContact Trail 32
Black Diamond Trail Shock
Black Diamond Sabretooth Pro
Petzl summit 66 cm
Go extreme sleeping bag -10, -22, -32
Therm - a - rest basecamp pad

How do you see this?

Subconsciously I was afraid that money thing will be raised.. To be precise - I have some outdoor experience and that kind of activity suits me very well so I'm almost sure than mountaineering will be my thing.

And another point - I know that gear costs but:

1) I'm starting from nothing
2) I don't want to worry in the mountaints that my gear is not suitable or will break in the middle of my trip

So I'm really determined to invest to support my plans.

I would add some liner-type gloves.. two pairs, probably. I wear my liners more than anything, even in the winter, and really only throw on an insulated shelled glove/mitt when shits really blowing or super cold.

I'd either go with a slightly lighter boot and ditch the approach shoes, or just suck it up and approach in the Baruntses.. two pairs of footwear is just unsat, in my opinion. I don't have any experience with the Baruntses, but if your feet fit Sportivas, they ought to be pretty comfortable as far as doubles go. Otherwise, maybe some Phantom Guides/similar insulated single and make sure to bring a couple extra pairs of sox.

As to spending the money... it's your money, don't worry about the opinions of internet bravos. It IS always best to borrow/rent as much as you can, when you're new... 'cause fact of the matter is, even being a hiker/backpacker/former infantryman/whatever your current experience is, you still have pretty high odds of hating alpine climbing. It's a lot of suck for very little payoff.

On top of that, there are so many nuances and little features/differences in gear that you'll end up with multiples of the same item. If you can, find something used on the classifieds here, or rent like mentioned above. Once you see the differences in different fits, breathability, lacing, etc.....then spend your money. I DO carry two different pair of boots if there is a long approach that transitions to heavily glaciated terrain. On summer alpine in the US, I only go with one pair. I'll carry the extra 3lbs in order to be comfortable.....but not everyone is willing to make this tradeoff, and that's OK! That's the beauty in mountaineering.....you're your own boss.....enjoy the activity as long as you're respectful to others and the environment. Spend $10k if you want to, that's no one elses business!

Ben Beckerich wrote:As to spending the money... it's your money, don't worry about the opinions of internet bravos. It IS always best to borrow/rent as much as you can, when you're new... 'cause fact of the matter is, even being a hiker/backpacker/former infantryman/whatever your current experience is, you still have pretty high odds of hating alpine climbing. It's a lot of suck for very little payoff.

I lol'ed at the "former infantrymen" comment. I'm a paratrooper about to be stationed in Alaska and I could never imagine myself as using my military experience as qualifications for mountain climbing. But I suppose I know a lot of bone heads who would

A hard shell helmet, like the Mammut Skywalker is probably more appropriate than the Petzl Meteor.

NeoAir XTherm is warmer and lighter than the basecamp pad.

Those Deuter packs are pretty heavy and over-engineered for climbing. Something lighter and simpler would likely be better.

No idea what a "go extreme" sleeping bag is. Marmot Helium (15) or Lithium (0) membrain bags would be a good choice. They're cut large enough to wear insulated clothing inside, so you can push the temp rating pretty low on these bags.

Petzl Vasak are lighter than BD sabretooth crampons and are fine for your objectives.

Rab Stretch Neo jacket and pants are probably better shells than those on your list.

Thanks Kai for your suggestions but could you please elaborate more on that?

Why would you choose mammut helmet?

NeoAir XTherm is of course better but is 2 times more expensive.

Go extreme is polish sleeping bag company. I'm considering also Cumulus Teneqa 850 which has positive reviews from my friends.

Do you think Rab Stretch Neo is significantly better than Latok? Why?

Considering the pants the ones you've mentioned are 3 times more expensive than mine on the list. Is it worth it?

The PETLZ meteor is a foam helmet that's designed to take only a single impact. It's more of a cragging helmet than an alpine helmet. Hard shell helmets like the Skywalker are better at protecting your head from falling objects and are more robust.

The thermarest base camp pad is big and heavy. You really don't want to carry one on a climb. Spend the extra money and get the Xtherm.

Stretch neo is stretchy, and a bit more breathable than the Latok. The Latok is a fine jacket, however, (I have one and like it a lot) and you would be fine with it.

Unlike jackets and other top layers, you seldom have the opportunity to change and adjust your pants layers. (Because you're wearing a harness and it's a pain to mess with your leg layers on a climb.) I tend to wear the same thing on my legs the entire climb if possible. I might add or subtract layers on my upper body, but hardly ever mess with my legs. Because of this, breathability on the legs is quite important. It's nice to have some very breathable pants that are also water proof. The
Rab neostretch pants are good at this and will allow you to wear your shells even during high exertion. An alternative is to just wear soft shell pants and carry super light shell pants for wet or super windy/cold weather.

Really, however, your clothing choices are fine. I'm making suggestions on clothing tweaks that might increase the performance a little bit, but you would be ok with the clothing choices you've listed.

Charle wrote:Thanks Kai for your suggestions but could you please elaborate more on that?

Why would you choose mammut helmet?

NeoAir XTherm is of course better but is 2 times more expensive.

Go extreme is polish sleeping bag company. I'm considering also Cumulus Teneqa 850 which has positive reviews from my friends.

Do you think Rab Stretch Neo is significantly better than Latok? Why?

Considering the pants the ones you've mentioned are 3 times more expensive than mine on the list. Is it worth it?

Kai wrote:The PETLZ meteor is a foam helmet that's designed to take only a single impact. It's more of a cragging helmet than an alpine helmet. Hard shell helmets like the Skywalker are better at protecting your head from falling objects and are more robust.

You've got that backwards... you must not crag-climb. The Meteor is a F&L technical alpine helmet. Hard, heavy plastic is what you want for cragging.

But I think the point you're trying to make is that it will be destroyed by the end of a week long mountaineering school trip, and this is true- it's not exactly single-use, but it IS highly disposable.

I disagree. The Meteor and other foam helmets of the same type are primarily constructed to protect the wearer from an impact of a fall. (Like when you're cragging, and you take a whipper, and your head smacks the rock wall.)

A hard shell helmet is primarily designed to protect the wearer from the impact of falling rock or ice hitting your head. (Like when you're in the mountains and loose rock comes off the climb and smacks you on the head.)

Take a look at the BMC guide to helmets.

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/new-helmet-guide-launched

So, I stand by my earlier statement. Foam helmets are better suited for cragging. Hard shell helmets are better suited for alpine. You can obviously use either type of helmet for either type of climbing, but each has an ideal use.

Ben Beckerich wrote:

Kai wrote:The PETLZ meteor is a foam helmet that's designed to take only a single impact. It's more of a cragging helmet than an alpine helmet. Hard shell helmets like the Skywalker are better at protecting your head from falling objects and are more robust.

You've got that backwards... you must not crag-climb. The Meteor is a F&L technical alpine helmet. Hard, heavy plastic is what you want for cragging.

But I think the point you're trying to make is that it will be destroyed by the end of a week long mountaineering school trip, and this is true- it's not exactly single-use, but it IS highly disposable.

Have you ever seen a terrible-looking Indycar crash and wondered how the drivers usually walk away unscathed after the car disintegrated around them? That's partially by design. The energy of the impact(s) is more completely absorbed by the car rather than transmitting the forces through the car to the driver. That's why the foam helmet is better in the case of a fall, but because of this only suitable for one significant fall.

Woodie

We must be disagreeing on the definitions of "crag" and "alpine."

The best helmet IMO isn't made anymore. CB dyneema/Carbon helmet. Had the lowest impact upon the wearer's head of any helmet and on top of that could absorb 10 UIAA impacts. At that time, the foamie helmets just came out. That was, hmm, 7-8 years ago. The newest foamie helmets are lighter than the CB, but only good for a single hit.

The couple of times I have encountered significant rockfall/being hit, damn that hurt, one really wants a helmet with more than a single impact absorption capability. I have seen 1 foamie helmet completely broken in half. Was a 1st en foamie though. I have heard they switched out type of foam since then to combat this glaring problem.

Pants... Tights + gaitors, still waiting for someone to come out with a softshell that has full length zips for ease on/off. So, I go tights, gaitors, full length zip on - off pants. Goes on right over your harness/boots etc.

PS. I prefer a synthetic fleece headband over a wool benie. I sweat a lot. Don't know how you fare in that respect. The fleece evaporates water faster, holds less water and likewise can easily be squeezed out/dries quickly.

I strongly recommend/suggest stephenson warmlite Vapor Barrier socks/gloves or make do with either surgical gloves, bread bags, or tight rubber gloves.

Wastral wrote:PS. I prefer a synthetic fleece headband over a wool benie. I sweat a lot. Don't know how you fare in that respect. The fleece evaporates water faster, holds less water and likewise can easily be squeezed out/dries quickly.

I strongly recommend/suggest stephenson warmlite Vapor Barrier socks/gloves or make do with either surgical gloves, bread bags, or tight rubber gloves.

Polartec Powerstretch is my liner of choice.