I've mentioned this mystery bug I've suffered for close on 30 years on various parts of SP.

It has a dramatic effect when I'm walking a hill or mountain. Never turned back from it, but really been slowed and once, (recently), had to stop for a while to recover.

Main effect is incredible sweating and very significant loss of energy. Sometimes very sudden!

For those who know me, yes I am a fat bastard. But this has been happening since I was young and slim.

Had yet another load of blood tests and all have come back clear. Yet again.

So my doctor could not start sending me to random specialists which was his fall back plan.

Instead he thinks we should see if it is Hypoglycemia. Severe deficiency in blood/sugar level. Sort of diabetes in reverse cause by excessive insulin activity. (I think!).

So. I'm off for a couple of days walking the UK Peak District in Derbyshire next week with a lovely young lady. And will take some packets of Dextrose to see if they help.

Anyone here ever endured this? Or walked with anyone who has the condition?

If so, advice etc much appreciated.

My Dive Buddy has to eat something every three hours at least or she can't function well. When we dive together, I take some granola bars just in case she needs them. Is this something like what you're talking about?

goldenhopper wrote:Bryan, I have extensive knowledge of "Hypoglycemia" which by and large does not exist (at least not for long) in non-diabetics. The syndrome you are likely experiencing should be more accurately called "Impaired Glucose Tolerance" or "Metabolic Syndrome" as the symptoms could be due too much insulin and/or a C peptide imbalance even though your blood sugar levels are normal. I could go on forever and I'm off to bed, but I'll send you a PM tomorrow and refer some reading to you that I think will help you immensely. The good news is you can control the symptoms and over time (in most cases) heal the condition.

That could be a really great help, thank you so much.

I have tried GOOGLING my symptoms but never really got anywhere.

I would add that the condition, ie. feeling that I have mild flue, severe sweating and loss of energy can hit at very short notice regardless of whether I am walking a hill or mountain or not. Literally from feeling 100% to feeling totally lousy within ten minutes.

When at home it is easily dealt with. Take Paracetamol and lie down. But it gets v hard to deal with half way up a mountain! I slow right down from my already very slow pace and just go into "very slow plod mode", and try and walk though it. Never had to turn back because of it but, by heck, I've had some incredibly long times to do some simple mountain walks!

Hi Bryan
I'd like to hear Goldenhopper's expert advice too. Though, some info here:

I used to suffer from energy dips, hit the wall or even fall asleep after sugar doses or alcohol. I found that Dextrose and neat sugars - chocolate, cakes etc gave only a short fix (no good for the hills). Since I started on cooked breakfasts, even if it's just 2 scrambled eggs, my energy level stays consistent. I really avoid neat sugars like the plague. They are in all manufactured foods. And believe it or not, since avoiding processed stuff, I can go till lunchtime or mid afternoon on half a grapefruit without any craving. Natural sugars are best. Boxed, sugar-loaded breakfast cereal, forget it, I go like a wasp for an hour, then I'm craving again. It's all TV hype to dose us up with addictive sugar so we buy more. It ought to be made a crime. Since some years I eat nearly all real food (nothing manufactured), I'm on full power all day

goldenhopper wrote:

RayMondo wrote:Hi Bryan
I'd like to hear Goldenhopper's expert advice too. Though, some info here:

I used to suffer from energy dips, hit the wall or even fall asleep after sugar doses or alcohol. I found that Dextrose and neat sugars - chocolate, cakes etc gave only a short fix (no good for the hills). Since I started on cooked breakfasts, even if it's just 2 scrambled eggs, my energy level stays consistent. I really avoid neat sugars like the plague. They are in all manufactured foods. And believe it or not, since avoiding processed stuff, I can go till lunchtime or mid afternoon on half a grapefruit without any craving. Natural sugars are best. Boxed, sugar-loaded breakfast cereal, forget it, I go like a wasp for an hour, then I'm craving again. It's all TV hype to dose us up with addictive sugar so we buy more. It ought to be made a crime. Since some years I eat nearly all real food (nothing manufactured), I'm on full power all day

This is very good advice Bryan. Overabundances of simple carbohydrates are very taxing on the endocrine system and for some can leave you shaky and weak a short time after eating them.

Bryan, do you have any of the following symptoms on a regular basis?

Night sweats, dry mouth (especially at night), sudden hunger pangs, sweet tooth after eating a meal (almost always), weakness after exercise (especially in the legs), headaches, itching or crawling sensations on the skin, rapid heart rate upon mild exertion?

One way to test for "Reactive Hypoglycemia" is to do a five hour glucose tolerance test with insulin levels taken at fasting, one hour and two hours. You'll also need an endo who is familiar with and accepts the presence of the disorder as many do not. The maintenance of blood sugar levels is an incredibly complex system and much of it is still not understood. There are many reasons that you could be having the symptoms you're having. Reactive Hypoglycemia is also itself frequently a symptom of another underlying problem and is sometimes a reaction to stress (physical and/or mental) as with all auto immune disorders.

Goldenhopper.

I suffer from none of those problems you list, not even very occasionally!

A typical "episode" follows the following pattern:-

1. Start passing urine very frequently. Maybe over a period of a few hours.

2. Start sweating profusely even with mild exercise. Briskly walking around the house doing "housework" can see me drenched within ten minutes. But without any exercise there is no sweating.

3. Start feeling what I can best describe as mild influenza symptoms.

4. Then very soon after that last stage a sudden loss of energy. It is more obvious and more pronounced if it happens when I'm out on a walk and on the uphill section!

I just slow right down in whatever I am doing. No pain. No change in heart rate, not out of breath. Just no energy.

The energy loss is typically for a few hours. At home I'll just go and lie down and sleep it off. If I'm on a walk I have learned to walk through it. Slow right down. Take Paracetamol and ISO drink. Maybe frequent and very short stops. Even when the energy loss has gone the influenza like symptoms can go on for days or even weeks. Sort of in the background, but still there.

An episode hit me on the fourth and last day of my recent trip to Wales. A walk up an easy mountain that would normally have taken me 4 hours or less, took six hours. (I had planned a lot more for that day but decided to just do the easy bit because of not feeling well). I was fine and well when I left my car at the car park. I hadn't had the frequent urine passing part as, being on the fourth day, I had probably got quite dehydrated. But about 30 minutes into the walk I got hit by flue symptoms and loss of energy within a ten minute period. Feeling "fine" to feeling "fu.ked" in ten minutes!

The timing of an episode seems totally unrelated to when I've eaten.

So far as another underlying illness. Quite extensive blood tests done regularly, (more a week ago), all come back clear. And after 25 - 30 years I am sure an underlying illness would have shown up somewhere?

I've got me some Dextrose tablets and am just waiting for another full episode. To see if the Dextrose has any impact I need to get hit by the bug when I'm on a walking trip where the energy loss will be most obvious. And where I can see if the Dextrose works or not.

Bryan, have you ever been tested for brucellosis? I know it can last for years and your symptoms could suggest that.

More very helpful information above. Thanks guys.

I will go ahead and try the Dextrose when I get hit again. And if that doesn't work then I'll suggest a Brucellosis test to my doctor.

One thing from that is the smell of my sweat during an episode! YUK! Not like wet hay, (I don't think so), but very acrid, sort of acidy. In discussions about waterproof walking jackets I have been told the acid could be what destroys the waterproofing of my jackets. Brand new or just recently re-proofed once I have had a good sweat inside one the waterproofing is totally gone. Jackets wet out the moment it starts raining.

Just going back to diet. The main sugar in my diet is in the beer I drink. MAX two half litre bottles a night. Often only one, sometimes none.

The rest of my diet has been close to a "Mediterranean" diet for many years. Lean meat, salads, olive oil, fish vegetables, (raw and cooked), etc.

Bryan, as Goldenhopper says, and although your diet sounds quite good, avoid the quick fixes. Likely, if you take the Dextrose tablets to recover, you'll get a subsequent and bigger drop and feel totally smashed. I don't recommend pushing yourself hard when you get those dips, you might do yourself some harm. Sit down, drink plain water and eat something. Your body is trying to tell you something.

On the alcohol, I don't recommend it for two reasons:
1. It's a stress on the liver and therefore can effect your sugar balance. Have you had a liver function test?

2. Bear and wines contains yeast. All yeasts (bread, moulds etc) are bad for the body, as there could be something else going on here - Candida, that could rob you of energy too. It lies primarily in the small intestine. Normally, the body maintains a balance with it, but it can overgrow (overpopulate). However, it's a massively overexploited symptom. Everyone will try to sell you everything from here to the moon - especially those "little friendly bacteria". A proper detox, I mean like going on a retreat will clear it out of the system. Most of us have it in our systems, and huge numbers of people have the overgrowth, which can lie in bulk quantity in the gut and drains the energy of what you put in. Certainly it's something to look at. I have a very experienced contact about it if you'd like?

As for the sweat. Two things. Your body could be exuding toxins (hence a detox). And or you've got grotty armpits (shave them once, then use a simple roll on deo, and use non-bio washing power for clothes).
You'll get sorted, so don't worry. We just want you to feel great.

I also have some diet input to contribute, but first I'd like to you tell us what your daily menu is (truthfully, everything and how you cook it), including exactly what drinks and fluids you consume, and the amounts?

And what you eat and drink and on the trail?

My liver function is one of the regular blood tests carried out. Consistently spot on!

It ain't sweaty armpits Ray! The reason I went back to my doctor recently was because I had a bad episode when walking with someone else for the first time: the majority of my walking is alone. She patiently waited while I stopped and got going again when my energy loss occurred. But it was when I changed my shirt at the end of the walk that she said, "Bryan, you must get back to your doctor".

The shirt was exactly how you would expect it to be if had been left in a full tub of tepid water. I rang it out SIX times. Each time there was great cascade of liquid onto the ground. Not a dribble. A great splashing cascade!

I was expecting that. I'd walked 400 yards from where I was staying in the morning to meet her at her flat. When I arrived my base layer shirt was so drenched I had to change it before we even left for the walk.

That was the bug at it's worst. It also left my hiking trousers drenched in sweat.

So far as food on the trail. Don't eat much. Crisps, ISO drink and water, maybe some chocolate. And I take, but rarely eat, Trail Mix or equivalent. Some of my lady walking companions make a sandwich for me. (Bless). I have to sit for something like 15 minutes before I can force myself to eat it, no matter how lovely it is!

Missed my daily menu.

Breakfast

2 slices of wholemeal bread toasted, OR 3/4 small crumpets, toasted. With a thin layer of butter, (70% fat reduced). De-Caff coffee, no sugar

Snack

Had a bag of salted crisps before going out for my daily "training" walk. 2 hours, 6 miles and 850 feet of vertical ascent today.

Lunch

Today's was typical. Part of a french loaf/baguette. Same reduced fat butter. Filling was tinned tuna, (tinned in brine). With no ketchup or similar. Plus a whole packet of Watercress: I love the stuff and it's one of the so called "wonder foods". Couple of glasses of tap water with lunch.

Snack

Couple of dry biscuits. A Granny Smith Apple. Lovely and sharp! Glass of water.

Supper

Tonight is planned to be very lean grilled gammon steak and a fried egg with roast potato and sweetcorn. A wheat bier and share a bottle of wine between three of us.

No sweet as usual.

Other meals at night could be slow cooked lamb steaks in red wine with red peppers and onions. Served with roast potatoes and green beans. Or a quick cooked pan of diced pork with a variety of chunky cut veggies. Served with boiled rice. And similar meals.

Olive oil is about the only thing we cook with. For roasting and frying.

Bryan: Your diet: That's not quite the "healthy natural food" I was expecting. And I'd keep proteins and carbs separate. Best combining this way (protein + veg without potato, pasta etc) or do (carbs + veg, no protein). You'll digest and assimilate a whole lot better. Any citrus fruits, don't combine with a meal (eat them 30 mins before or many hours later). On milk, that's only good for modern-day humans if it's mother's milk and only for babies. We don't have a good enough enzyme system to completely tolerate cows' milk. (Goat's is better).

Your trail food ain't too good. Hope the ISO drink is not containing sugar? Try just plain water as nature intended, as it goes straight to where it's needed without requiring the body to filter out all the additives. So get the electrolytes from the fresh food. Eskimos don't need ISO, nor I. Drink most of the water on its own, wait 10 mins, then eat the food. Don't drink lots with meals or you'll cool the stomach and dilute the stomach acid, so you won't digest the protein - which can take 6 hours to leave the stomach.

And the chocolate, that's the quick calories that'll make you bomb out. Throw that to the birds. On the bread, get good stuff - use a yeast-free bread. In UK: by "Village Bakery, a Wholemeal Organic "Country" loaf. It is naturally leavened, tastes fab. (why do you have trouble to eat the sandwiches your friends make?). Other trail food, take sardines (in olive oil only) and a big boxful of tomatoes and olives - as many as you can eat. The sardines have the sustaining protein and you'll get the vit and minerals from the fresh stuff. You don't need bread with it.

Breakfast: Throw out those crap white flour de-natured crumpets. Go for that protein breakfast, the full monty, but not fried (so 2 scrambled, boiled or poached eggs, baked or poached fish, less of the heavy meat). You need sustaining, slow-release energy. Use organic butter - it's cheap and fab. No antibiotics in it. (go the same for meats).

Lunch: Throw out that crap baguette.

Supper: Again, try not mixing the carb potato with the protein. You'll soon get used to it and once you've upped the fresh veg (of which I see little in your lists) you'll crave it. My skin is as clear as a baby's (clear outside = clean inside). Avoid the yeast beer (alcohol wrecks the sugar balance, the yeast compromises your immune system). Red wine, minimal. Still, enjoy it with a meal.

We are forgetting one important thing! Food in = food out. Pellets out = wrong diet.

My information comes from a lot of general reading, my own experience, people I've met, and my enlightening experience as an attendee of Detox International's retreats, who are very expert in whole-body, lifestyle detox. http://www.detox-international.com/ and why
http://www.detox-international.com/Why_Detox.html Money, well spent and one of the best therapies you can give a body.

Try and follow the suggestions for a whole month and tell us the results. Be strict, and don't keep pushing too hard when you get those attacks. You don't have to compete with yourself, but be in harmony with.
Here's some info on food combining:
http://www.internethealthlibrary.com/Di ... bining.htm

i am a physician and I do not believe that Brian suffers from a metabolic syndrome based on his symptoms, but it would be really helpful to check your blood sugars when you feel that your energy is leaving you... I think that we all have some differences in our metabolisms, and some of us have to eat more often than others, some can handle more carbyohydrates, and some need a lot of protein in their diet (I do not eat almost any protein, all carbo, and am very healthy and full of energy).
It is hard to obtain a blood sugar monitor, but if you know someone with diabetes it should be very easy and cheap for them to check your blood sugar.

Some big things in the above posts! Very grateful for the advice.

What I'll do in the first instance is to try and get a blood sugar monitor. At least that will tell me which direction to head in.

Ray. I guess definitions of healthy food vary! Keeping away from heavily processed foods and stuff like Burgers etc is what I've always done. Using mainly fresh ingredients is normally the route I go. I will ditch the white bread, (only a very recent change), and head back to the seeded wholemeal breads I have eaten for years. That started with breakfast this morning!

And something else I have moved a way from in the last weeks when my youngest daughter and partner moved back in us my daily plate of mixed salad. Usually as an accompaniment to my supper, but eaten sometimes for lunch as well.

The changes to some white bread, and cooked vegetables instead of a large plate of mixed salad has only been very recent, and obviously have not caused the problem that has been going on for over 25 years. But I'll go back to that because I like that sort of food.

As for the beer.

Gotta work on that. Start by moving away from wheat beer, (that has yeast in the bottle for secondary fermentation), and limiting intake to one bottle a night to start with.

And yes. The daily exercise will continue. I very rarely miss a day, even when I feel lousy.

Great Bryan. I'm sure we are bugged at wanting you to get right.
For the blood sugar monitor, you could insist on it through your Doctor. They should be able to send you for a treadmill walk, and that'll catch it straight away under supervision. Just keep pressing for it. Otherwise, go pay at a sports clinic.

Do go for that yeast-free bread above. It's fab too. You really don't want yeast in the system. It's invasive and can get into the bloodstream.

Besides ensuring to get sufficient calories in, stuff yourself with mountains of salad. I eat (and grow my own) 5 - 7 lettuce / wk. Salad 2x day before or with meals. This green stuff is "pre-biotic" and the good little bugs love it (the good bugs are "pro-biotic). It'll elevate your immune system, without going for all that expensive TV hype, as stomach acids kill most of the good little buggers as soon as they are consumed. The original colonies in people came from good old Ma' before we fully secreted stomach juices.

On the beer, one can't give up too many pleasures, but do try a switch to red wine. An Aussie, Merlot, Cabernet, or Shiraz. A nice 14% gives satisfaction for a small amount sipped. 3 bottles £10 from Tesco. I do the same, and look at baby face - Ahem! Uncork the bottle an hour before using.

On the recent inclusions. Okay you had the symptoms before, but it's good not to add fuel to the fire. So, well done. I'll mention the symptoms to my detox contacts (without referring to you personally, of course), I'm sure they'll recognise it. Though I need to know one more thing - how is your skin appearance - any kind of redness, elevated patches, dry patches etc?

For sure, you'll get it sorted. But do try that food combining method above, it will take a big stress off your system, and it's just great to have the protein with just a big pile of French beans etc (From Lidl, the frozen packs are just fab, fill your plate). Don't push too hard on the walks, but as soon as you get the symptom, stop, rest, drink, snack.

You are beating me hands down on the exercise, so I've been out running to catch up!