kevin trieu wrote:I'm interested to see stats of people encountering bears in the Sierra Nevada outside of Whitney Portal and Yosemite Valley. In my six years of heavy travel in the Sierra, I've never seen a bear. Marmots/small critters and birds are bigger problems than bears from what I have seen and experienced.

My experiences echo those of Kevin's.

Some friends did hike the JMT and had to battle a persistent bear in Lyell Canyon one night...

Avoiding the whole discussion of what works best and reality of bear visits, etc - the most important thing to do is check the regs in the area you're going into.

Far more often than bears, I've encountered rangers on the trail in bear canister required areas who will ask if you've got an approved canister - and often times follow up that question with a 'knock' on the side of your pack to see if you're carrying one. I've had a ranger come through camp and check that my Ursack was closed properly (in that one year they were allowed with liners - 2006?). And in every case, the conversation has turned to those tickets written for people who weren't able to prove that they were meeting regulations. Tickets or ejection from trail, depending on area.

I once had a ranger in Yose not believe I could fit 6 days into one of the smaller BearVaults when I picked up my permit for the JMT. So I got to unpack my whole pack and show him. That was great.

Just sayin' - I love my ursack too, but if you're going with an unapproved method, especially in a well-traveled area, be prepared to face the consequences.

calipidder wrote:Avoiding the whole discussion of what works best and reality of bear visits, etc - the most important thing to do is check the regs in the area you're going into.

Far more often than bears, I've encountered rangers on the trail in bear canister required areas who will ask if you've got an approved canister - and often times follow up that question with a 'knock' on the side of your pack to see if you're carrying one. I've had a ranger come through camp and check that my Ursack was closed properly (in that one year they were allowed with liners - 2006?). And in every case, the conversation has turned to those tickets written for people who weren't able to prove that they were meeting regulations. Tickets or ejection from trail, depending on area.

I once had a ranger in Yose not believe I could fit 6 days into one of the smaller BearVaults when I picked up my permit for the JMT. So I got to unpack my whole pack and show him. That was great.

Just sayin' - I love my ursack too, but if you're going with an unapproved method, especially in a well-traveled area, be prepared to face the consequences.

Been in the wilderness perhaps 100+ times, never been asked to prove I had a canister, at most just asked if I had one, just different circumstances I guess. But am curious if you ever tried denying the ranger the ability to search your belongings.

The wilderness permits I've received do not state that a canister must be displayed upon request. I would think if you challenged a ticket it might pretty quickly get thrown out if the ranger couldn't prove you didn't have one, and didn't have a warrant to search you for one. One thing to get a ticket, another for a court to actually require you to pay it.

And it may even be that those tickets the rangers issued were only to folks who willingly confided they did not have an 'approved' method.

And yes- it was 2006.

Over the last 9 or 10 years I've definitely seen bears in Sierra wilderness areas. The comparison between Yosemite Valley is probably better with places like Tuolumne Meadows or Cedar Grove, where I've also seen them .. these are more car-camping areas with lots of, ahem, tourons but also lots of bear boxes.

The last bear I saw was up at Saddlebag Lake last summer, at the trailhead. I'm sure nearby campgrounds draw them in. Good thing the place has bear boxes ..

That doesn't mean I always carry a bear canister -- it depends on where I'm going and what the regulations are. Sometimes if a canister is just 'recommended' and the ranger makes a good case I'll bring mine. But if I can get away with hanging food, then I will. The method I use was taught to me by a grizzled old dude in the Sierra Club, and is illustrated here (scroll down for the 'PCT Method') -

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... nique.html

Re: Ursacks - I bought one of the yellow aramid models back in 2001 and think they are great for protection against marmots and such, but have heard of several failures with various models of theirs. I don't trust the company for anything but critter protection.

The lightest canisters out there are Bearikades. Spendy, but the national parks also rent them. They have never been compromised by bears. BareBoxer also makes a small canister, kind of a scaled-down Garcia but it's limited in capacity -- I like it for short solo trips.

rhyang wrote:http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bear_bag_hanging_technique.html

Cool link Rob. Let me ask to be sure I understand this correctly. After you are done hanging your food, the rope the twig is on is still hanging down freely within reach? But this is not an issue?

mrchad9 wrote:
But am curious if you ever tried denying the ranger the ability to search your belongings.

The wilderness permits I've received do not state that a canister must be displayed upon request. I would think if you challenged a ticket it might pretty quickly get thrown out if the ranger couldn't prove you didn't have one, and didn't have a warrant to search you for one. One thing to get a ticket, another for a court to actually require you to pay it.

The problem of course is that it would be mighty inconvenient to challenge the ticket, that is, you would have to return to the area possibly weeks later and show up in the local court. Your devotion to the principle involved would have to be mighty high.

On the matter of a ranger searching your backpack you certainly could decline. However, the poster in this case didn't allow the ranger to rummage through his pack; rather, he voluntarily went through it himself to show the ranger he was in compliance.

mrchad9 wrote:

rhyang wrote:http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bear_bag_hanging_technique.html

Cool link Rob. Let me ask to be sure I understand this correctly. After you are done hanging your food, the rope the twig is on is still hanging down freely within reach? But this is not an issue?

Yep, bears don't have opposable thumbs, so mostly they might be able to just bat at the cord and give up. I think there has been some discussion about why this works on backpackinglight in their forums somewhere.

I use this method in areas where counterbalancing is suggested as an alternative. If the bears are smart enough to defeat counterbalancing (some send their cubs up to break the branch and other tricks), then the area is probably going to require bear canisters anyway. The problem with just tying the cord to the trunk or some such is that smarter bears might just sever the cord. That method is still ok in some places though.

But this is all for black bears like we have in California. I've never backpacked in grizzly country, and am unsure if the PCT method will work there (are grizzly's taller ?)

The Sierra isn't the only place to find them of course. I remember seeing 2 or 3 bears in one trip in the Yolla Bolly Wilderness, and also in the Marble Mountain Wilderness. They are also present in the Trinity Alps, though I haven't seen them. They also seem to like the campground at Castle Crags state park up near Dunsmuir

Thanks Rob.

Right you are. Seen them in the Trinity Alps. Though the bears there are much more afraid of humans than in the Sierra, ran into a couple guys hunting bears there too. Perhaps those things are related???

If I can't fit it all in the box I like to stuff down at the foot of my companion's sleeping bag...thats if I like em. If I don't, I put it under their pillow.

Mountain Impulse wrote:On the matter of a ranger searching your backpack you certainly could decline. However, the poster in this case didn't allow the ranger to rummage through his pack; rather, he voluntarily went through it himself to show the ranger he was in compliance.

Yeah that was me (she).

That one experience was offputting but rather than raise a stink and annoy the other people behind me in line for permits (Tuolumne meadows, long line, i'd already waited an hour to pick up my reserved permit) I just complied. In the other cases, it was more of a 'hey i'm on your side' kind of friendly convo with the ranger, not a demand to show compliance. No problems showing it since I was in compliance. I personally don't really care - i have nothing to hide or explain. I just posted to let people know that if they *are* concerned with things like that - well, be warned.

WHOA! IS THAT AN URSACK I SEE ACROSS THE WAY? SUCKERS!!




[Image credit, Icarreau]

lcarreau wrote:Fur crying out loud ...!

Where's that beer? Bob Sihler said he would leave me one!

Are you kidding? I would never leave a beer for anyone or anything. Well, maybe something in a can (other than Guinness).

mrchad9 wrote:

rhyang wrote:http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bear_bag_hanging_technique.html

Cool link Rob. Let me ask to be sure I understand this correctly. After you are done hanging your food, the rope the twig is on is still hanging down freely within reach? But this is not an issue?

I use this set up in both black bear and grizzly country. You just need to make sure that you get a high enough branch, so the food ends up out of reach of a standing bear. I use very lightweight cord, which is even harder for a bear to deal with. My set up weighs something like 2 oz. Worthless of course above timberline...

apoica wrote:Although if you're in a trail camp on a popular area, I guess it would be tougher to avoid a camp-checking ranger. But it seems like avoiding those areas is probably the single best way to avoid food-seeking bears anyway.

+3 (three reasons there to avoid popular camps- crowded, 'friendly' rangers, and they are bear magnets). When I haul my crap into the woods, I don't like to feel like I'm in a drive-in campground.

rhyang/moni- looking forward to trying this out. Probably too high up this weekend, but will be using it soon, perhaps when I head to Sonora soon, had been planning on the Ursack for that one. Sounds like a good system. (it is simple, and not a burden... makes it easy to comply with)