The Rangers used to decide who goes or not based on the equipment and the credibility of the individuals involved. Now, with the new rules I am not certain how strict they are, but I am sure they would turn back an obvious novice. How cold? Last year on Mt. Washington summit in January we experienced a high temperature of negative 7 degrees with 23 mph sustained winds bringing the wind chill to about 30 below which is probably average/tame for that peak. Good thing it was sunny cause I wouldn't have made it up there otherwise. And as others have said, Katahdin is a whole nother monster due to the remoteness of the area with Mt. Washington-like conditions/unpredictability. Anybody who goes up there better be damn prepared with some solid experience cause it's a real mountain.

The chimney notch would be the technical crux of the route. I would probably bring a couple of ice screws given they are so lightweight as well as a few cams/nuts & a 30 meter rope along with a general mountaineering axe. The other possible crux which I would consider more prominent would be getting some weather while traversing the knife edge.

I hope to do it this winter but the time necessary for me to take off along with getting people to commit & getting a lucky break with weather makes the challenge as tough as the climb itself!


Ralph

How cold is cold?

Depends on a lot of factors. Northern Maine can be from 50f above 0 to -45 f. I'm not kidding. If we are having a thaw, expect crappy snow, rain and ice,maybe bare ground, Or it could be -20f during the day and colder at night. I've seen the whole range. Higher up the mountain expect worse.

We went to katahdin last year mid january and we decided to do the knifes edge after the avy danger closed our options on some of the gullies. The technical crux of the route is definately hiking down and out of the chimney, however I would consider it easy fourth class if that and if your party is competent enough to climb lower fifth class rock and steep snow you should be fine. Also, this section of the climb is only around 60ft so to bring in rock/ice gear and pitch it out would be overkill, we ended up bringing one vertical ice tool each and left the rope and protection down at chimney pond so we could move fast and unhindered.

Also, once you are up at Chimney Pond try to talk to the ranger there as much as you can, they have been there for years, have a lot of experience, know the mountain, and also know what the conditions of the mountain are at that time. They can also suggest a different route for you and your party if you dont have enough experience or the right weather to try it.

Alright guys thanks for all the responses. I meant to say pickets, I don't know why I said pitons, but now that I think about there wouldn't be enough snow up on the ridge anyways for pickets. So I'll probably bring a rope with me then decide when I get there whether to bring it up or not.

Another question is which route we should take on the way down. We were planning on going up the Pamola side then down from the summit. We took the cathedral trail down in the summer and that seems like it would be very dangerous in the winter. What about the Saddle trail down, or would that have too much avalanche danger?

Check with rangers for Avy conditions when you get there - a lot can change depending on wind direction in previous days - but Saddle trail would be my first choice. It's by far the gentlest way down from the summit, plus it brings you back to Chimney Pond. I agree that descending Cathedral in winter would be challenging. Other options also have drawbacks... it could be a very long day whatever plan you come up with.

How skiable is the saddle trail in winter?

good question

I know some ski Katahdin, just not sure where. I saw some photos once, and now I'm trying to hunt them down.

Edit: Found some links.
http://www.emberphoto.com/home/page_id=61615/portfolio_id=270

and
http://www.famousinternetskiers.com/trip-reports/09-10/tr-mt-katahdin-jan10/

Great links!

This looks cool too..

http://www.wildsnow.com/books/wild_snow.htm

gbeane wrote:Some of your information is out of date. There is no longer a minimum party size of 4, although solo winter hikers are required to fill out a one page solo form. I don't think they allow soloing on the "technical routes". They also no longer have "required gear", although they do have "recommended gear". They also no longer close the mountain due to weather, they do issue a code of green (favorable conditions), yellow (favorable but deteriorating), and red (above treeline or technical activities not recommended). A red day can be triggered by these conditions: real temperature of -30F or less, wind chill of -35F or less, rain/sleet, or a major snowstorm in progress. Again, red day is "not recommended" but technically not prohibited.

A two page form is required for groups, this also reserves your camping spot (climbing resumes not needed):
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com ... ration.pdf

solo winter campers or above treeline non-technical climbers fill out this form:
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com ... gForm_.pdf

Thanks for the great update. A little sanity has been a long time coming up there.

I remember hanging out in the ranger's cabin at Chimney Pond one beautiful October morning--we were going to do a short route called the Diamond that afternoon, and then the Armadillo next morning. In those days there was a "deadline" for hikers going to the top to reach Chimney Pond--either 9 am or 10 am, I can't remember which. At one minute past the deadline the ranger strode out of the cabin and, spying a hapless hiker going by, he screamed "GET off this mountain. You are going DOWN. DOWN! NOW!" Then he came back in the cabin and laughed and laughed.

The ranger who was in the Chimney Pond cabin when I was there was really cool. He seemed to be in a constant stupor that he was lucky enough to live there and look up at that view on a clear day. Either that or he was really, really stoned.

On February 11-15, I am climbing Katahdin in Winter with a team for the third time. The first year it was around -50 degrees in January so they closed the mountain above Chimney Pond (which there is no way to know until you do the ski in). Last year it was 25 degrees (in March) and 1 member of the team and I attempted the knife's edge. Before even getting to the edge the wind and blown snow made us back off (60+ mph is not unheard of). We then went down and climbed up via the saddle to the peak. This year we are going to go for the Knife's Edge again. We will have rope, harnesses, belay devices, and some pro for the knife's edge. The knife's edge is not a joke.

The 12 mile ski in to Katahdin dragging a pulk uphill to Roaring Brook is a tough first day. The second day is short up to Chimney Pond. Then we usually fool around with some skiing, snow shoeing, etc. The third day will be for the knife's edge and summit. Fourth day is for some skiing and general side trips, and the fifth day is a ski out from Chimney Pond.

We always get the bunkhouses because you will want to be warm at night.

I was the other guy ogden (above) attempted knife's edge with and will be doing a third winter trip to Katahdin this February. My two cents with it would be really do not underestimate the weather because it's pretty rugged up there. I wouldn't attempt it unless you are with a partner you were comfortable with - it was good that we were both in agreement pretty quickly that we needed to turn around as we both actually got knocked off of our feet by the wind, which I had never experienced before. It's strange because at Chimney Pond it doesn't seem like it would be that windy, but once we got up on the ridge it was pretty incredible. It was very windy on the tablelands once we descended and then went up the Saddle but the wind was not nearly as bad as on Knife's Edge.

I would very generally say that no particular skills are required to get to Chimney Pond via Roaring Brook - that section just requires a willingness to suffer. The hike up and down Saddle probably just requires a little bit of comfort level in snow and icy conditions - I know I found the descent a little scary on the first 50 feet or so because if you slipped you would slide for a very long time on some icy snow. I wouldn't recommend trying Knife's Edge without at least a fair level of winter climbing/hiking experience, just because if you make a mistake you really could pay a very steep price.

In terms of what the rangers will and won't let you do, I got the sense both years they'd pretty much let you do whatever you want, though they did in a very conversational manner ask us about our experience, equipment and what we planned on doing. They are very nice and have a ton of stories about people suffering gruesome injuries and close calls in avalanches, which certainly functioned as a deterrent for me. But the name of the game really seems to be "you make the call."

In terms of skiing, the Saddle is definitely skiable and I plan on skiing it this year, but only after getting a close up look at it from climbing up and down it last year in the winter. It's a wind lip (or was last year) that drops off a bit and has a very steep pitch for the first 100 feet or so, then still pretty steep for another 500 feet or so, then mellows out. It's a lot like a much less wide open Iron Mask at Vail, though instead of soft powder it's fast east coast icy hardpack. The snow is very hard and fast, though, so I really would not recommend skiing it unless you are very confident in your abilities and have skied on such terrain before, like Tuckerman's when it's frozen after the sun passes and suddenly it's scary fast bulletproof. You could be down it on almost no time, on skis, though, versus climbing. Of course conditions could be different at different times, too.

Another far more mellow ski option is a stream bed you can hike up to from Chimney Pond and ski down. It's a fun little run, though not fast or scary. The ranger did tell us someone hurt himself very badly on that run, though, by slicing his throat open in a freak accident where he hit the edge of his ski with his face and neck. That gets me back to the main theme that runs through a trip to Katahdin in the winter, which is you really are on your own and far from anything, so one small bad decision, like pushing it on Knife's Edge, could result in something very bad happening.

Katahdin in winter is stunning, though, and one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. I plan on doing it every year for many, many years.