Hey all, I have a quick question for those of you who are experienced ice climbers. I've been fascinated by climbing for almost a year now, but since I live in KS, go to KSU and have an intense major I haven't had the opportunity to really get out and do much in the way of actual climbing. Went to Ouray this summer and thoroughly enjoyed it, but didn't get to really do much hiking or anything like that as I was there with the mom and brother. Bro might've been up for it but my mom's not quite as outdoorsy as us so hiking to the top of Ophir pass was the extent of the hiking/climbing.

Anyway, seeing all the pictures of ice climbers there in Ouray, and some of the researching I've done since (bought a how to book about ice climbing this summer after returning....been reading that and checking out sites, etc.) I've become interested in ice and I've been trying to figure out the best way to go about learning to ice climb (and mountaineering in general....I know there are differences there). I've heard alot about the Ouray Ice Festival and the low cost clinics there, and I've checked out what it would cost to take full classes through Mountain Madness, San Juan Mountain Guides, or eventually RMI (I'm an Interior Design major and KSU's school is ranked highly so I've been entertaining trying to get internships/jobs in the Seattle area as much for the quality and number of firms up there as the opportunity to be close to the climbing/hiking in Cascades!...and of course the easier access from Seattle to points more distant like Alaska and maybe someday the Himalaya.....but that's just a dream right now of course ). My point is, I guess, I was wondering if any of you more experienced climbers could recommend a good way to get into it? What's the best route to go as far as learning and acquiring equipment? I know equipment is expensive generally speaking so I've been unsure whether to rent equipment as I learn and buy later, or buy first?


Thanks and happy climbing!

Flatlander2climb wrote: I know equipment is expensive generally speaking so I've been unsure whether to rent equipment as I learn and buy later, or buy first?

Not an experienced ice climber (only been 5-6 times) but I tend to buy gear that I don't know how to use yet (had a partial rock rack months before I led a route). The reason I do that, besides the fact that I love gear, is that it helps me to get more familiar with the gear, gives me more oppurtunities to get out and use it that I wouldn't otherwise have, and the gear sitting there motivates me to get out and learn to use it properly. Worst case scenario, if you don't like it, you can get most of your money back on ebay, and you'd probably be out about the same amount of cash that you would have spent on rentals. Just one way of doing it...

Best way to get into it is to find someone that will take you and and teach you a few things. If you don't know anyone to climb with, taking a class is a good way to get started.

Personally, I would advise against going to the Ice Festival with the idea of climbing. Way too many people around to get much climbing in. Based on a college schedule, the best time to go would probably be after the first of the year but before being due back in school.

This is my first post, so hello all. Yes, go to the fest. It will be terrific, see lectures, camp in the freezing cold, meet other like minded people and just enjoy yourself. Show up with good boots, a helmet, harness (maybe crampons if you borrow) and a few dollars to buy people beer and you will get a few rides on ropes. We Ice climbers are a different breed, it really is about fun and the people you meet. If you find yourself with people who prattle on about all the shiny equipment and the evil dangers and the mind games - RUN AWAY - the macho tend to be there for all the wrong reasons. I plan to go, that is if my wife hasn't given birth yet, and I will happily lend you gear.

As for learning, find someone who is safe and learn from them, then find someone better etc etc. Its not that complex and a lot safer these days (compare a Warthog to a BD ice screw!). Oh - and go leashless if you can. By the way never forget that it is an uncomfortable sport. Good Luck and enjoy.

This is my first post, so hello all. Yes, go to the fest. It will be terrific, see lectures, camp in the freezing cold, meet other like minded people and just enjoy yourself. Show up with good boots, a helmet, harness (maybe crampons if you borrow) and a few dollars to buy people beer and you will get a few rides on ropes. We Ice climbers are a different breed, it really is about fun and the people you meet. If you find yourself with people who prattle on about all the shiny equipment and the evil dangers and the mind games - RUN AWAY - the macho tend to be there for all the wrong reasons. I plan to go, that is if my wife hasn't given birth yet, and I will happily lend you gear.

As for learning, find someone who is safe and learn from them, then find someone better etc etc. Its not that complex and a lot safer these days (compare a Warthog to a BD ice screw!). Oh - and go leashless if you can. By the way never forget that it is an uncomfortable sport. Good Luck and enjoy.

funkyicemonkey wrote:We Ice climbers are a different breed, it really is about fun and the people you meet. If you find yourself with people who prattle on about all the shiny equipment and the evil dangers and the mind games - RUN AWAY - the macho tend to be there for all the wrong reasons.

What's this "we", Kemosabe?

I'm not any fun at all.

I'm too sexy for my tools...

mconnell wrote:Best way to get into it is to find someone that will take you and and teach you a few things. If you don't know anyone to climb with, taking a class is a good way to get started.

Personally, I would advise against going to the Ice Festival with the idea of climbing. Way too many people around to get much climbing in. Based on a college schedule, the best time to go would probably be after the first of the year but before being due back in school.

+1. The Ice Fest is a big party, not that there's anything wrong with that. But, as mconnell said, if you want to climb go another weekend. Even then OIP will be crowded. But you may be able to hop on someone's rope.

Stick with tools with leashes until you get the hang of it. You'll likely overgrip, get tired, and drop one of them and it's no fun being stuck without a means of transport. Not such a big deal on top-rope, but those sharp pointy things are dangerous to both you and your belay.

Here's my 2 cents: ICE CLIMBING IS FUN, DO IT!!!

Before you ever get on the ice, my suggestion would be to go sell 2/3 of your belongings, divorce your wife (or lose the girlfriend) they will leave you once you start climbing anyway and then go down to the local crack house and start taking drugs.....................because once you start ice climbing your life will be just as worthless as the rest of us who climb, and doing drugs is generally more socially acceptable and cheaper than ice climbing....LOL
Ouray is a great place to start, if you can get there, because they have super easy ice access and great guides / courses to teach you the correct techniques. If you are lucky enough to live in a place where someone actually teaches ice climbing, it is worth the money for the first time. (But since you are in Kansas, you are screwed). The ice festival is an awesome way to meet lots of climbers and see some great technique.
If you do like nearly everyone else on the planet, you will go with some friends and hang off a top-rope for several trips. This works equally well, but may take longer to learn the little tricks to make it easier--and is definitely easier on the wallet, because if you are on a top rope, you can use someone else's gear before laying out the second mortgage for your own gear.
As far as getting gear goes, unless you are independently wealthy or just won the lottery, beg borrow and/or steal gear from anyone possible until you have gone a few times. This will let you get a feel for different gear designs. You will find that different brands work better or worse for different people, and no matter what, ice gear is expensive!!!
Used, older gear works just fine until you get a little better--unless you are a gear junkie--then just keep writing checks....like i said, just start doing drugs because it's cheaper
I would suggest trying leashless, but use leashes to start--if you don't cinch them onto your wrists, but keep your hands in the loops, you are essentially climbing leashless, but WHEN you get pumped out and drop a tool (not if, but when--it will happen) you can still have a good climb and your belayer will appreciate not having a tool dropped on their head. When you are just starting out, you will knock plenty of ice on them anyway.
The BEST way to get started?......JUST GET OUT AND DO IT!!

I think I read an article a while back about someone who hung a hose from a grain silo... Just a thought.

benjamingray wrote:

Flatlander2climb wrote: I know equipment is expensive generally speaking so I've been unsure whether to rent equipment as I learn and buy later, or buy first?

Not an experienced ice climber (only been 5-6 times) but I tend to buy gear that I don't know how to use yet (had a partial rock rack months before I led a route). The reason I do that, besides the fact that I love gear, is that it helps me to get more familiar with the gear, gives me more oppurtunities to get out and use it that I wouldn't otherwise have, and the gear sitting there motivates me to get out and learn to use it properly. Worst case scenario, if you don't like it, you can get most of your money back on ebay, and you'd probably be out about the same amount of cash that you would have spent on rentals. Just one way of doing it...

also...climbing with crappy ice tools is not a great experience...so, it's prudent to really spend your money wisely on gear which you like and look forward to using. If you can, try using (renting or borrowing) a few different styles to find a tool which suits you. In the long run...it'll pay off....

Joe White wrote:

benjamingray wrote:

Flatlander2climb wrote: I know equipment is expensive generally speaking so I've been unsure whether to rent equipment as I learn and buy later, or buy first?

Not an experienced ice climber (only been 5-6 times) but I tend to buy gear that I don't know how to use yet (had a partial rock rack months before I led a route). The reason I do that, besides the fact that I love gear, is that it helps me to get more familiar with the gear, gives me more oppurtunities to get out and use it that I wouldn't otherwise have, and the gear sitting there motivates me to get out and learn to use it properly. Worst case scenario, if you don't like it, you can get most of your money back on ebay, and you'd probably be out about the same amount of cash that you would have spent on rentals. Just one way of doing it...

also...climbing with crappy ice tools is not a great experience...so, it's prudent to really spend your money wisely on gear which you like and look forward to using. If you can, try using (renting or borrowing) a few different styles to find a tool which suits you. In the long run...it'll pay off....

nothing wrong with climbing on crappy tools.....i've done it for 12+yrs....

Flatlander2climb wrote:Hey all, I have a quick question for those of you who are experienced ice climbers. I've been fascinated by climbing for almost a year now, but since I live in KS, go to KSU and have an intense major I haven't had the opportunity to really get out and do much in the way of actual climbing. Went to Ouray this summer and thoroughly enjoyed it, but didn't get to really do much hiking or anything like that as I was there with the mom and brother. Bro might've been up for it but my mom's not quite as outdoorsy as us so hiking to the top of Ophir pass was the extent of the hiking/climbing.

Anyway, seeing all the pictures of ice climbers there in Ouray, and some of the researching I've done since (bought a how to book about ice climbing this summer after returning....been reading that and checking out sites, etc.) I've become interested in ice and I've been trying to figure out the best way to go about learning to ice climb (and mountaineering in general....I know there are differences there). I've heard alot about the Ouray Ice Festival and the low cost clinics there, and I've checked out what it would cost to take full classes through Mountain Madness, San Juan Mountain Guides, or eventually RMI (I'm an Interior Design major and KSU's school is ranked highly so I've been entertaining trying to get internships/jobs in the Seattle area as much for the quality and number of firms up there as the opportunity to be close to the climbing/hiking in Cascades!...and of course the easier access from Seattle to points more distant like Alaska and maybe someday the Himalaya.....but that's just a dream right now of course ). My point is, I guess, I was wondering if any of you more experienced climbers could recommend a good way to get into it? What's the best route to go as far as learning and acquiring equipment? I know equipment is expensive generally speaking so I've been unsure whether to rent equipment as I learn and buy later, or buy first?


Thanks and happy climbing!

Equipement isn't as expensive as they all claim. Its just because everyone needs to have the new flashy crap. Hell, I've got a pair of DMM venoms I'd sell ya for $50....ok, not really...I want to hang on to them. Love those tools. My point is....buy secondhand used stuff. Nothing wrong with it. Then, find an experienced person to teach you. There are some as long as you are willing to be a belay slave and don't bitch about approaches. Then, follow them up a LOT of climbs. WAAAAY more than you would trying to learn rock climbing. SLOWLY, biuld up experience over YEARS and YEARS. Anything else is just fastfood Amerikana.....and you don't want that. Ouray is ok, BUT, all people do is TR there endlessly and the ice becomes shit by xmas. It doesn't resemble ANYTHING like ice you'd find on a "natural" climb.

Its sounds like you are open to moving to areas that have ice?......SW CO has some of the highest concentration of ice climbs in the lower 48, you just need to learn how to live in one of the many mtn towns in the area. Cody is probably the next best area.....but I have no idea how you would make a living there. Bozeman area is great, but same problem as here in SW CO. The New England area has fantastic ice climbing and is close to a few major cities. Pacific NW has a lot of good ice......it just requires a lot of driving and long approaches to get to (which can be a very good thing). The front range in CO is limited on ice and is mobbed with people.....as the SLC area is as well. Still, you can learn in both area. For the most part, that covers it. A few other random areas in the country with ice (i.e. Minnesota/Wisconsin) but not good enough to move there FOR that reason.

Oh, one more thing about the gear.....don't believe the stuff about finding "the right tool for you". Just buy anything and learn how to use it. Yeah, tools are different and require different style of swings....but seriously, you can climb on anything. Most of the new tools are all hype. Its about the climber....noth the gear.