gwave47 wrote:Yeah and I'm the kind of dude who goes into the house of murderers, rapists, and thugs on a daily basis to keep bodies from ever going into bags. So I have a very keen sense of when things just aren't right and its time to "get the hell out". I don't press my luck, but I remain calm and think clearly in hairy situations.

You are indeed the Man!

Carry on.

BTW done any routes on the NF of Looking Glass or Whitesides lately?

Oh yeah, the ice on Cedar Rock should be coming in very soon.

Let us all know how fat it gets this season, would ya.

My apologies Chief, just read my last post and want to clarify something. When I say I would be impressed, I am not taking away from your climbing resume or your abilities, what I am saying is that I would be impressed if anyone ever rescued me/ had to rescue me, because I avoid putting myself in those situations. I don't think anything I have ever attempted or will ever attempt is risky enough to need rescue, unless something just seriously goes wrong. I am not the type to put myself in a situation that I do not know with 99% confidence I could get myself out of.


Back on topic. How is the search going? I read the summary for Monday, but didn't hear what attempts they made Tuesday? Anyone have a good link. I hope the best for them and while it's still possible they are alive, it does appear to be grim at this point. I thought I read on one site that the one who they recovered the body of that died of hypothermia was the more experienced of the three, not sure how accurate that is, but it makes you wonder if the other two may have already been in a bad state and he was going for help or if maybe something had already happened to the other two and he then decided to try to come down instead of snow caving. I don't know the experience level of the three as I have heard mixed reports but I would think it cannot be good if the most experienced has already passed. I take it none of them were SPer's?

You know as this forum keeps going, the ones who have climbed Hood are much more supportive of the climbers than the ones who haven't (according to the summit logs).

All last week everyone up here was raving about the stellar snow conditions in Washington and Oregon due to very unusually cold and very dry weather. I went out Saturday to retrieve my friends wallet on Evergreen Mountain and was shocked at how nice that snow was. I heard from other sites that Hood was in great condition and there was very low avy danger and weather was going to hold until Friday night. Based on all the news, I can see why they and many others here on summitpost probably went out to climb Hood. All the sites were giving the green light and all who have climbed Hood know by the Hogsback Route it takes only a day and for highly advanced people it can take under 6 hours (not me). PLEASE HOLD YOUR JUDGEMENTS OF THESE CLIMBERS UNTIL ALL THE FACTS HAVE COME FORWARD!!!!!!

To the two missing climbers: My prayers are with you; to Luke: RIP and I hope you carry on the special memories of your climbs with you to your new home.

In the past five years on Whitney and surrounding high profile peaks here in the Sierra, I have seen first hand, some of the most insane attitudes one could ever imagine.

Every single one of them came from supposedly "experienced climbers".

We had some fatalities along with some very narly incidents up on that hill this season.

On bringing one of my clients down the Main Trail after he was exhibiting some serious symptoms of the ALS after reaching the summit via the MR on a one day CtoC, I counted a total of 113 folks coming up the main trail. Of those 113, I can tell ya that at least 80 of those folks had absolutely no business being up their and were all potential fatalities waiting to happen.

As this climbing game becomes more popular, far more folks will be getting on the hills that IMO are so ill prepared experience and knowledge wise.

That is their right to do so.

But please do remember...

Just cus ya own some gear, got some Gym time, clipped some bolts or lead some local 5.8 trad routes, don't mean that ya can go onto a hill that entails having some in depth real Alpine Experience with repeated Crevasse Field walking and Rescue knowledge to be competent experienced climbers in this arena.

This is not directed to any of the current victims.

Just the potential future victims.

This hill, and those surrounding it, are no joke. They will eat you alive never to be seen ever again. Don't ever forget that nor think that you can learn the gig as you go along your merry way to the summit.

Get some guided learning time under your belts. Take some serious local alpine crevasse tech and rescue courses and practice the gig repeatedly prior to going it.

This type of learning/experience will surely give way to your success and not your demise. Just as Jim Whittaker shared in his latest local news interview.

If these incidents do not make many here think twice about their true experience level, than I do not know what will.

Please, listen to and use the most important piece of gear in your inventory.

The one that is located in between your ears....

http://bencrawfordlife.com/2009/12/15/f ... d-anthony/

Wed Dec 16
Search Suspended for 'Likely Dead' Mt. Hood Climbers
http://www.newser.com/story/76277/searc ... mbers.html

Here's the bottom line...

If you chose to go and climb, regardless of what and where, you best be prepared for the fact that shit can happen.

Doesn't matter how experienced one is (some of the best of the best perished this season alone. I do not have to name them), you better have your head in the game 110%.

There is no such thing as luck. Our destiny on any hill depends on our abilities, experience, awareness and the temper of the environment we chose to play in.

Any, and I mean any lapse of reasoning or abilities, what so ever, will in fact result in dire consequences.

Climbing is very dangerous and kills. Period.

So, when you head out, regardless of where and what your gig is, remember that.

This sad incident is just another grim example of that.

"The Great Spirit of any mountain should never be taken lightly. One goes into it's hands and must remember that death is a grim consequence of any lapse in reasoning. We can not go with the intentions of conquering the mountain. Rather, it is us that will always be conquered."
"342 Hours on the Grandes Jorasses"
René Desmaison after his very sad and grim incident on the Grandes Jorasses, 1971, which he lost his partner and he himself almost perished.

Thanks for the words of wisdom Chief. Were it not for your post, I'm quite certain I would have gone out and gotten myself killed tomorrow. Now how about a little respect for the fallen and missing and spare us all any further elitist lecture.

tazz wrote:Ben thank you for your beautiful article.


I am ashamed of you folks here!!! This should be a thread about 1 climber who unfortunately left us and two who we are wishing the best for. they are not newb's. they are not folks from out of the area. the are not dumb and went on a poor forecast.

they were experienced locals taking advantage of the great conditions we have had for 1.5 weeks. Just like me and many others out that same day and weekend. Just like you local CA folks and Co folks who take advantage of the BEST conditions . Hood's BEST conditions for the difficult routes...(or any ice/steep snow route) is in winter. Very cold and clear weather was upon us until the day after their planned climb, PERFECT conditions. Something happened. not weather and not planning "fail" due to weather. Obviously there was a fall with the scattered gear and poor luke. Something we may never know. Please can we have ONE thread here for the guy/climber we have lost and the two others who are missing without all the speculation and arguments and ....and...and....and....

Please people. respect...

I really want to start another thread for the climbers. This one and the other one is a sewer hole.

Glad Im not the only one that noticed. C'mon people! Put your hubris, self-interest, and irrelevent thoughts aside for a moment... These are people from our community!

Please keep in mind that it is very likely that the family members of these guys will come across this thread looking for some catharsis and meaning.

So far, they will be coming up short...

As I have said before -and I hope others will follow- my thoughts are with the family and friends of the these three climbers. I am deeply sorry for each of your losses. I am still hoping for a miracle for the missing two...

The Chief wrote:If you chose to go and climb, regardless of what and where, you best be prepared for the fact that shit can happen.... there is no such thing as luck.

I respect you for your experience, which is vastly greater than my own, but I have to respectfully disagree with you here.
A) If you were to prepare for every eventuality, you would be dragging a truckload of stuff with you for the most mild of climbs. Taking in the full scope of *everything* that can happen, it's simply not practical to prepare for it from a gear perspective. Mental preparedness will only get you so far in certain situations.
B) There absolutely is such a thing as luck. It's a bit audacious to suggest that we have some measure of control over everything that *can* happen on a mountain. The reliability of mountain weather forecats is highly dubious, yet you trust your life to meteoroligist-math every time you head out. You're actually far more likely to die in the car on the way there, not matter what your experience level. Anything at any moment can snatch the life right out of you.

Speaking hypothetically: Suppose the two missing climbers were actually the first to be injured, and the fellow that was found was forced to downclimb on his own, with predictable results. You can rope up all you like, but there is absolutely no garauntee that you won't be injured in a fall. People have been impaled by their own axes on relatively short tumbles. You can break a limb slamming against the side of a crevasse as you're safety line stops your fall.

Point: No safety preparations ever grant you 100% safety. I am a believer in the power of mountains, and absolutely believe in luck, and I've seen it go both ways.

Alpinist wrote:Thanks for the words of wisdom Chief. Were it not for your post, I'm quite certain I would have gone out and gotten myself killed tomorrow. Now how about a little respect for the fallen and missing and spare us all any further elitist lecture.

Agreed. I wonder why the Chief keeps repeating the same tired line?

Seems like most folks here only care about distinguishing themselves and their opinions anymore. Amongst all this white noise, todays quasi-final news on the missing climbers appear to go unnoticed:
"Rescuers Believe Missing Mt. Hood Climbers Are Dead, Search Is Suspended
[...]
Health experts believe there is a less than one percent chance the two missing since Friday are alive."
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7017283213

Under the bottom line, everyone here (and anywhere else for that matter) is going to continue doing things in their own way and according to their beliefs anyway, so if you think about it, the fact makes all discussions here pretty senseless. Sadly entertaining, if anything.
And the world keeps turning, people die, starve, get shot, are tortured, fight, argue, cry, laugh, love, have fun, and you can only hope the dead have had a good life before it ended.
That's about enough philosophy for today

The Chief wrote:Here's the bottom line...



Climbing is very dangerous and kills. Period.

Isn't it ONE of the reasons why we climb? If we wanted to find a safe sport we could just stick to playing chess.

I'm surprised with many posts I'm reading here in relation to this tragedy. Some of you sound more like Bill O'Reilly than climbers.

We all know about many VERY EXPERIENCED climbers who have died in the mountains. I don't see any post criticizing Todd Skinner, Dan Osman, John Bachar and others. And that's because we understand what climbing is all about and the risk involved in it.
Why can't we show some respect to these 3 fellow climbers and their families and friends, rather than posting crap? We don't even know much about the circumstances of the whole ordeal and what really took place.

Zzyzx wrote:Why can't we show some respect to these 3 fellow climbers and their families and friends, rather than posting crap?

Because some people equate the length, breadth and number of their pontifications with their degree of wisdom. This thread makes it painfully obvious that more isn't better.

I agree -- let's show some respect for the fallen and the missing.

Zzyzx wrote: Some of you sound more like Bill O'Reilly than climbers.