Guyzo wrote:Today things are changing, I meet "Climbers" - who can climb 5.10 - who don't know who JB was and don't even talk about Walter Bonnitti, Gaston, Yvonne, Lynn Hill or any of the true greats of the sport.

There's that fking word.

Neither Bonatti, Rebufatt nor YC ever called this spiritual vehicle a "sport". All three basically said that those that partake in this activity with all their hearts and soul, do so not for any competition. Rather to find peace in a world of turmoil, chaos and disfunction.

In his book, "Spirit of the Rock", Ron Kauk sums it up so perfectly...

"In the lessons of the vertical world lies the power of a conscious connection to the spirit----- in the rock, air, water, trees and each other.

Climbing has saved my life from the confines of materialistic illusion we're all taught in school.The way I see it, there are two worlds: the world where nothing is sacred except money, and the other is the world, where everything is sacred. Climbing has shown me the difference between the two."

That my friend is the true fundamental difference between today's climbers, and those of us that started way back when and did so only to seek and then find as Ron did.

Steve1215, quit living in the past dude. Nothing has changed for us that continue to live the life we found "bitd". For me, there is no such thing as this "bitd" shit. I still climb today with the energy, vigor, tenacity and quest for that peace I speak of above, as I did when I first tied my first bowline on a coil into a goldline rope.... over 43 years ago.

The Chief wrote:In his book, "Spirit of the Rock", Ron Kauk sums it up so perfectly...

YES!!! This book should be read by all who consider themselves climbers. A fabulous and inspiring read to say the least. Ron nails it in each and every sentence (while some may be a bit more spacey than others, you should get the picture). Pursue the aesthesis of movement over stone in the finest environments the Earth has to offer via methods which value mental and physical skill, courage, commitment and respect.

Days of adventure gone forever??? I still find plenty of adventure in my climbing as well as cool people...perhaps you should try to do more with less! Running it out near the skill threshold in new terrain, now that is adventure worth seeking!!!

Steve1215 wrote:I pretty much stopped climbing because when I went to the crags...I just did not recognize "climbing" anymore; it was sad. I was also repeating a bunch of routes just to prove that I could still climb at that difficulty level, which is pretty pointless.

I agree with some of what you're saying in the first part of your post, although I attribute that more to the climbers than the activity. Just because some people choose to dumb down the sport for their own safety, enjoyment, whatever, [edit: doesn't] prevent me from climbing how I want to.

I don't get the second part though. I still love climbing. While doing the same routes over and over might not be as fresh as always climbing something new, I still love the movement, the time with friends, being outside, etc. There's always someplace you can go and rediscover that sense of adventure. Sure, spread is a part of life but that's just your body. Your mind will always stay hungry for it, even if your body takes a while to catch up.

Steve1215 wrote:--
A lot of us, for a lot of reasons, just cannot be totally dedicated to climbing.
--

Oh really. Then WTF are you doing ragging on others for doing just the same as they?

Hypocritical and totally oxymoron post there STEVE1215!!!

Steve1215 wrote:If you climb less than 320 days a year...surely you are not totally dedicated to climbing.-

Who set that criteria... 320 days?

Last year I climbed 302 days, does that make me not dedicated? The year before, around 305, so far this year I have 36 days, etc etc...

Steve1215 wrote:But people were doing 5.13s in 79 and 80, without hangdogging...

Odd, Jardine worked the Phoenix for well over 2 months before sending it.

Tony Yaniro worked Grand Illusion for a month or so before sending that.

Wolfgang worked many of his .14's for many months before sending them.

Etc Etc Etc.....


These were the dudes that invented "Handogging" back in the late 70's.

Hell, I remember reading an old Climbing Mag article back in the mid 90's on Pete Cleveland and his incredible work in Devils Lake back in the late 70's early 80's. His method of choice was to TR the moves repeatedly prior to leading and then sending the line.

C'mon Steve, bring your old cranky self up north and let's train for Southern Belle! That is my 'hang it up and move to Maui' climb...but I was born in 1983 so I must be a wimp (albeit a wimp with a dream! ).

jeeze Steve, you are flip flopping more than Obama during his campaign. are you trying to pull a "the Chief" on us? are you that bored in San Marino? aren't there nice tennis courts to get a few forehands in?

Is this thread still alive?

goldenhopper wrote:Is this thread still alive?

Alive and kicking..... dude.

Steve ... nothing stays the same in life.

I get a completely different adventure from climbing now, from the one, I found when I was 25.

And Chief.... it's a sport.

Ernest Hemingway, said it best.

Guyzo wrote:And Chief.... it's a sport.

Ernest Hemingway, said it best.

JB said it better...

"If this was a sport, I would have retired from the sport a long time ago."

His and I discussion of this very thing at the MMS parking lot Oct '08.

goldenhopper wrote:Is this thread still alive?

Oh, yeah. Ol' Steve keeps it going. . .

Fletch wrote:WHOOO CARES!!!

Call yourselves whatever you want! Just stop this effing thread!

WE GET IT.

Steve and Guy and Fatdad - YOU'RE SO MUCH MORE BADASS THAN WE ARE! WE COULD NEVER BE AS COOL AS YOU! IM GOING TO QUIT MY JOB, JUMP IN A 21 WINDOW VW, GET A BANDANA AND SOME SHORT SHORTS AND DRINK COORS PULLTOPS IN TUOLUMNE MEADOWS FOR THE NEXT 30 YEARS. ONLY THEN, MAY I ASPIRE TO BE WORTHY OF THE STATUS AS A TRUE CLIMBER.

Please guys, try and grow old gracefully...

Mr. Fletch..... So why all the shouting?

You accuse the three of us of many false things.

I always thought Summitpost, was a climbers web site.

What should we have meaningless internet chats about?

And if your going for a VW, get a water-cooled model, much faster.

I think what steve1215 is probing is a serious issue with climbers.

That issue is motivation.

Another is change, and changing times.

Most of the serious stuff here gets shut out by cheap ass - stabbing and flaming and name calling.

Sometimes it seems the flamers didn't read before sparking up the torch.

But that is the way it goes sometimes.

Fletch, THX for the quick love,

This is a day for all of us SP people to be humble

The Chief wrote:

Guyzo wrote:And Chief.... it's a sport.

Ernest Hemingway, said it best.

JB said it better...

"If this was a sport, I would have retired from the sport a long time ago."

His and I discussion of this very thing at the MMS parking lot Oct '08.

Rick, JB was a nice person, who lived his life on his terms.

You should cherish the time you spent with John.

I know I do.

Guyzo wrote:Rick, JB was a nice person, who lived his life on his terms.

As I do and how everyone should. That is the other thing that we both saw eye to eye on.

I cherish my time spent with all folks, no more or less depending on who you are/were. JB was no different nor more special than any of the many fallen spirits I was previleged to serve with.


Seems that is the bottom line of this thread. No one is better or worse than anyone else that ties into a rope and then takes off onto the vertical world of the rock/ice/snow. No matter how long one has been at it or what grade/rating they have achieved.

BTW, JB always reminded me during the winter months when we would run into one another on the "hill", how he thought that anyone that climbed ice, was a complete lunatic. That comment had absolutely nothing to do whether it was a sport nor how long one had been doing it.




Early....