Oregon hunter murders hiker pretending to be bear

by **lcarreau** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:58 am

goldenhopper wrote:
Moapa, what do they hunt out there, lizards?

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dmiki, TimB

by **phlipdascrip** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:01 am

lcarreau wrote:
phlipdascrip wrote:
Cascade Scrambler wrote:Why the hell does anyone have to hunt

period. if killing animals gets you off you should be locked away too IMO.

You can BUY animal meat at Costco. It's on the twenty-second aisle back, directly across and to the right of the granola bars and unflavored yogurt.

you are pointing out that you don't have to go hunting because you can buy meat in the stores and use that as an argument to justify hunting for fun? if i didn't know better i'd have to call you an idiot.

by **TimB** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:04 am

phlipdascrip wrote:
lcarreau wrote:
phlipdascrip wrote:
Cascade Scrambler wrote:Why the hell does anyone have to hunt

period. if killing animals gets you off you should be locked away too IMO.

You can BUY animal meat at Costco. It's on the twenty-second aisle back, directly across and to the right of the granola bars and unflavored yogurt.

you are pointing out that you don't have to go hunting because you can buy meat in the stores and use that as an argument to justify hunting for fun? if i didn't know better i'd have to call you an idiot.

I guess that makes me an idiot, as I have hunted since I was a boy and will continue to do so as long as I am able.

by **phlipdascrip** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:06 am

twoshuzz wrote:
phlipdascrip wrote:if killing animals gets you off you should be locked away too IMO.

I also enjoy the hunt, not the kill, but the hunt.

my statement does not apply to you then.

twoshuzz wrote:It's my right; and not one I'm forcing upon you.

tell that to the victim that got a bullet forced upon their butt.

by **MoapaPk** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:24 am

goldenhopper wrote:The world would be a better place if we were forced to kill our own meals while simultaneously avoiding the hikers.

I find hunting for pure sport objectionable, but I think that is the huge minority of hunters. Also, To enjoy hunting I don't think it's required the get thrills over it, but rather more about connecting to the natural order of things.

Moapa, what do they hunt out there, lizards?

I grew up in the woodlands of central Mass and Upstate New York.

Out here, you see a lot of hunters in the areas above 7000', where they hunt deer and elk, which are in the 160 mountain ranges of the NV Great Basin. Down lower, folks hunt bighorn sheep, pronghorns and game birds (grouse and chukar are very common). When I was last in the Tushars of Utah (above 11000'), I witnessed hunters killing a mountain goat. I've even seen hunters dressing a deer shot at ~5000' in the Mojave Desert, near Midhills campground.

by **phlipdascrip** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:27 am

twoshuzz wrote:Hmmmmm... How is the foolish hunter in questing forcing his right to hunt upon the victim ? By that logic, one could argue the hiker pushing his right to hike upon the hunter. One could further the argument that the hiker had no right to be where he was, infringing upon the hunter's right to hunt. Makes sense, eh ?

that's your rebuttal? seriously.

by **TimB** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:30 am

Yury wrote:
TimB wrote:No excuse for shooting something that you "thought" was a bear, none whatsoever-you don't fire unless you KNOW what you are aiming at.

I should think that the fellow should at least be up on manslaughter charges, negligent homicide, or whatever.

Unfortunatly recent trend is in the opposite direction.
Do you remember a story when Arizona hiker was killed about 5 years ago?
Apparently Arizona updated its law to make killing of hikers even easier: http://www.haroldfishdefense.org.

That is unfortunate. I do feel that when someone is negligent with a firearm, car, truck, whatever, with death being the result-they should be held responsible.

by **lcarreau** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:38 am

by **lcarreau** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:00 am

by **goldenhopper** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:22 am

MigTigman wrote:How many people die from Climbing/Hiking accidents per season?

There have been over 18 climbing/hiker fatalities in YNP alone this year. Compare that to the amount of people that have died nationwide this year from hunting accidents. I can almost guarantee you that there are as many or more people hunting throughout the United States than there are hikers/climbers. Yet the incident rate for hunting is lower percentage wise than for climbers and hikers.

And you don't even get any free meat for climbing! Unless perhaps if you have a sponsor...

Here's another case for hunting... It's environmentally positive! Buying your meat at the store, most of which came from massive factory cattle farms has a far greater impact than does Booze's bow and arrow hunting. BTW, I fear twomuchbooze is telling stories. I get the feeling he hunts only divorced Portland area heifer's for dinner "dates".

He's also claimed to be a gangbanger before... :lol:

by **lcarreau** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:37 pm

Back to the OP - a reliable news source has just reported that the "hunter" will NOT be charged.

Rather, they're calling it a horrible accident, which prompts me to opt for wearing bright orange attire when I'm out there gathering honey in the Woods,
or just using the Honey Bucket.

by **Scott** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:39 pm

How many people die from Climbing/Hiking accidents per season?

There have been over 18 climbing/hiker fatalities in YNP alone this year. Compare that to the amount of people that have died nationwide this year from hunting accidents. I can almost guarantee you that there are as many or more people hunting throughout the United States than there are hikers/climbers. Yet the incident rate for hunting is lower percentage wise than for climbers and hikers.

Mandatory Hunter Safety Courses Nationwide can be attributed to the incredible safety record that the American Hunting Community has enjoyed for over the past 100 years or so. Yes there have been a few fatalities over the years, but no where near the fatality/incident rate that has plagued the Hiker/Climbing Community in the past decade or so. Something that should be considered when raising this or any other hunting accident issue.

Maybe the Hiker/Climber Community should seriously consider implementing a mandatory safety education program similar to the Hunters.

IMHO, the above isn't a good comparison since the result of a climbing/hiking accident death usually results in the death of the climber/hiker himself/herself rather than the death of someone else. Hunting accidents involving shooting often (usually) result in the death of someone else (which is not the case if the hunter dies of hypothermia or other causes). The analogy is a good one if you take in account only deaths of hunters by things like weather or injuries. If hikers/climbers were commonly causing the deaths of others (and this can happen in such cases as throwing a rock off the mountain, but it is rare) then it would be a good comparison.

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Me? I'm not against hunting (as long as the animal is used for food rather than stuffed or left to rot), but I live in one of the most popular hunting destinations in the US and don't like going into the local mountains much during hunting season.

My consultant coworker is a hunter and once had to pack out a body of someone who was shot (San Juan Mountains, CO). The man was shot at night because another hunter heard a noise at night and thought it was a bear. "Noise shooters" as he calls them shouldn't ever be allowed to hunt.

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by **fatdad** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:06 pm

MigTigman wrote:How many people die from Climbing/Hiking accidents per season?...

This does not excuse the incident but it is something to think about.

If climbers and hikers fell on innocent bystanders, killing them but walking away unscathed themselves, then that argument might carry some weight. Until that actually starts happening, this argument carries absolutely no weight.

by **surgent** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:24 pm

Yury wrote:
TimB wrote:No excuse for shooting something that you "thought" was a bear, none whatsoever-you don't fire unless you KNOW what you are aiming at.

I should think that the fellow should at least be up on manslaughter charges, negligent homicide, or whatever.

Unfortunatly recent trend is in the opposite direction.
Do you remember a story when Arizona hiker was killed about 5 years ago?
Apparently Arizona updated its law to make killing of hikers even easier: http://www.haroldfishdefense.org.

This situation did not involve a hunter. It involved a hiker and a camper. The camper had a lot of barking dogs and the hiker an itchy trigger finger.

I just got back from two days in northern AZ hiking a couple peaks, all among a bunch of hunters looking for deer. No problems at all. Hunters and hikers can coexist very well; the number of actual "accidents" is very small. Me, I think the hunter in the OP should be charged. Even I know you don't shoot blindly into bushes.

Let's try to keep this from devolving into a divisive hunter/hiker flamefest. Most of us have done both. Hunters have a bigger obligation to act carefully, of course. The vast majority I have come across, including friends and family members, take it very seriously.

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by **climbinmandan** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:34 pm

fatdad wrote:
MigTigman wrote:How many people die from Climbing/Hiking accidents per season?...

This does not excuse the incident but it is something to think about.

If climbers and hikers fell on innocent bystanders, killing them but walking away unscathed themselves, then that argument might carry some weight. Until that actually starts happening, this argument carries absolutely no weight.

Well certainly far more people die each year climbing/hiking than grocery shopping. We're comparing apples and oranges, and we cannot reach any beneficial conclusions that way.

The unfortunate truth is that hunters launch projectiles that are designed to kill things, and apparently there are some morons who consider themselves intelligent enough to partake in this activity. I have been hunting for as long as I have been hiking (which happens to be as long as I have been walking), and I can tell you that I have never shot anyone, nor have I ever aimed towards anyone. Knowing your target is the most important part of hunting. I don't even take my rifle off of my shoulder until I am certain that I not only see my target animal, but also have a clear and unobstructed view of its vitals.

So... The best comparison is this: Hunting is like driving a car. The most inept are also the most dangerous.

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