The recent tragedy on Mt. Rainier has me thinking about personal locater beacons. Does anyone carry one while climbing? I wonder if they had a PLB with them, could they have stayed and attend to their partner while waiting for help to arrive. I'm not judging their actions, I'm just wondering if it could had a different outcome.

They're standard equipment for nautical enthusiasts when heading off a coast, so why not have one for Outdoors where you're far from support?

ACR is a well known manufacturer in this regard
http://www.findmespot.ca/en/Spot also makes emergency beacons

How long are you going to sit and wait for help before wondering if your PLB malfunctioned? I wouldn't sit in a tent and blindly assume help was coming; I'd activate the beacon, stabilize the victim, and then go look for help. From what little information is available, I'd guess that the victim was stable when they left him, and then experienced the final stages of hypothermia, where an individual feels irrationally hot and does stupid things like shedding all their clothing and wandering out into a snowstorm in order to cool off. Normally, when you leave an injured person somewhere, they stay there until you come back. Also, typically, someone either dies in a hurry or they can hang on for a couple days; while it's nice to leave someone with the victim, there's not a lot that person can do to affect the final outcome.

If the weather is good and you're in a place with a good budget and lots of climbing rangers like Rainier, a PLB transmission might get you a helicopter in the air and on-scene in an hour. More than likely the weather sucks, and they will have to hoof it in. This is where you really start second guessing whether help is on its way or you should be making tracks to civilization.

While PLBs can be real nice for someone wandering around solo in the woods (or open sea), I don't personally feel that they're as useful in mountaineering situations. Certainly I'd rather have a cellphone, even if it might require hiking for a signal, due to the two-way nature of the communication. That's not to say they're dead weight, but specifically in answer to your question, there is a very short limit on the amount of time I'd be willing to wait with a victim before leaving and seeking help on my own.

reddog115 wrote:The recent tragedy on Mt. Rainier has me thinking about personal locater beacons. Does anyone carry one while climbing? I wonder if they had a PLB with them, could they have stayed and attend to their partner while waiting for help to arrive. I'm not judging their actions, I'm just wondering if it could had a different outcome.

I doubt it.

mattyj wrote:- If the weather is good and you're in a place with a good budget and lots of climbing rangers like Rainier, a PLB transmission might get you a helicopter in the air and on-scene in an hour. More than likely the weather sucks, and they will have to hoof it in. This is where you really start second guessing whether help is on its way or you should be making tracks to civilization.

While PLBs can be real nice for someone wandering around solo in the woods (or open sea), I don't personally feel that they're as useful in mountaineering situations. Certainly I'd rather have a cellphone, even if it might require hiking for a signal, due to the two-way nature of the communication. That's not to say they're dead weight, but specifically in answer to your question, there is a very short limit on the amount of time I'd be willing to wait with a victim before leaving and seeking help on my own.

Got a SPOT and have been using it regularly for over 3 years now while out climbing high and when guiding. My Wife tracks my locale and it eases her fears when I am away. Which as many that know me, is regularly, at least once a week.


Hmmm. I will ALWAYS stay with my client/victim. I will never leave them. Stayed and gave CPR for well over an hour to one of my clients two years ago that collapsed at 12K. We eventually pronounced him after conversing with with the Medical folks on a SAT phone that was brought to the scene all due to my initiating my SPOT prior to commencing CPR.

As evidenced in the latest Ranier incident, "stabilizing" a victim is a false pretense if anything. The victim can always go into shock etc and need your immediate assistance. If they are on their way to dying, it's nice to have someone with you as you breath your last breath and pass your last words to another human. Been there too many times to know it fairs better on your conscience to have been with them comforting them the best ya can, then too have left them to die alone.

"If there is a lesson to be learned from Tuesday’s climbing fatality on Mount Rainier, it’s that one should always have an emergency communication plan before climbing, said Brian Hasebe, the climbing ranger who led the rescue attempt."

http://www.theolympian.com/2011/06/16/1 ... party.html

I ran across a guy who was climbing Crestone Peak and had dropped his spot at the base of the Red Couloir. Apparently the beaner it comes with is cheaply made? We had him come along with our group for the traverse and he asked us to call his dad when we got back to cell phone range since he was going to be up in the mountains for a week or so.

I called his dad who said he had been getting very nervous about his son showing up as not moving for about 12 hours. I don't have an opinion about the things one way or another but I found the whole thing to be pretty funny.

workmanflock wrote:I ran across a guy who was climbing Crestone Peak and had dropped his spot at the base of the Red Couloir. Apparently the beaner it comes with is cheaply made? We had him come along with our group for the traverse and he asked us to call his dad when we got back to cell phone range since he was going to be up in the mountains for a week or so.

I called his dad who said he had been getting very nervous about his son showing up as not moving for about 12 hours. I don't have an opinion about the things one way or another but I found the whole thing to be pretty funny.

I don't trust my camera to a flimsy strap; I look after it. Anyone who doesn't do the same with something valuable, such as one of these devices, has a problem with their values. Seems like they've gotten too used to disposable goods.

My Spot story:

A friend with a Spot was climbing/skiing the Frying Pan Glacier on Mt. Moran. I was working and watching their progress via the Spot website. Watching the webcams for weather. Being a real armchair mountaineer.

Then the spot quit moving, not too far from their base camp, but in what appeared to be steep terrain. What the heck? Did they ski into a crevasse? Get hit by an avy? Break a leg? I was freaking out.
After a considerable amount of time (and worrying) the Spot finally started moving. As it turns out, they had simply taken a nap.

My Wife and I have a well established emergency com plan in effect if anything were and does go array. She gets a complete itenary of my route, poc's for all the people in my party, knows exactly what emergency services and how to contact them that will be the fastest and best able to reach my location etc etc etc.

She was the center com point when I had my last fatal client incident. She ensured that the proper emergency services were in fact notified and aware of my situ. She was also in direct contact with me after I was allowed to utilize a sat phone that was brought to the scene from a local "Camp" who was dispatched due to my initiating the 911 on my SPOT.

The Chief wrote:My Wife and I have a well established emergency com plan in effect if anything were and does go array. She gets a complete itenary of my route, poc's for all the people in my party, knows exactly what emergency services and how to contact them that will be the fastest and best able to reach my location etc etc etc.

She was the center com point when I had my last fatal client incident. She ensured that the proper emergency services were in fact notified and aware of my situ. She was also in direct contact with me after I was allowed to utilize a sat phone that was brought to the scene from a local "Camp" who was dispatched due to my initiating the 911 on my SPOT.

Leaving a detailed itinerary, ETA, what time and who to call with a spouse/parent/loved one is one of the strongest actions one can take. It gives those at home an action plan should one become overdue. Also, signing in and out at all the voluntary climber registration points (and of course all the required ones) can expedite a rescue as well. Electronic devices can and do fail, but a worried spouse rarely will.

rickd wrote:

I had my last fatal client incident

WOW you are dodgy, note to self never hire this guy as a guide.

Hmmmm.....Note to self, ignore totally ignorant first posts.


He succumbed and died of HAPE. All in less than 3.2 hours from leaving the trailhead. His symptons came on at the 2.8 hour mark and he fully arrested at the 3.2 hour mark. Coroner's report revealed there was absolutely nothing anyone could have done to revive him. The HAPE process began before he even got to the trailhead at 10K.

The Chief wrote:

rickd wrote:

I had my last fatal client incident

WOW you are dodgy, note to self never hire this guy as a guide.

Hmmmm.....Note to self, ignore totally ignorant first posts.


He succumbed and died of HAPE. All in less than 3.2 hours from leaving the trailhead. His symptons came on at the 2.8 hour mark and he fully arrested at the 3.2 hour mark. Coroner's report revealed there was absolutely nothing anyone could have done to revive him. The HAPE process began before he even got to the trailhead at 10K.

Chief,

Much respect to you, and I'm sure there wasn't anything that could have been done for the guy, but you have to admit that the statement sounds bad. Saying "last" fatal incident makes it sound as if there's a list of them. Based on your usual input, you seem to have a lot of knowledge and experience, but based on that line, well... I wouldn't put it in an advertisement.

Kris

In regards to the original topic here, I'm generally opposed to PLBs, and I would probably be more opposed to them in this environment. I find that people use them as a crutch, getting into situations that they otherwise wouldn't, because they can fall back on their PLB. And when the s*** hits the fan in the mountains, there's a good likelihood that pushing your button isn't going to get someone there in time. I'd rather the inexperienced types were more uncomfortable getting out there, because it makes them more cautious.

From an entirely philosophical point of view, I go to the mountains to get away from all that crap and connectivity with the rest of the world. I already have a couple electronic leashes, and I'm not going to carry something else to tether me to the "real world" while I'm in my mountains. I'll be on Rainier in two weeks, and the only thing with batteries will be my headlamp.

rockymtnclimber wrote:I find that people use them as a crutch, getting into situations that they otherwise wouldn't, because they can fall back on their PLB. And when the s*** hits the fan in the mountains, there's a good likelihood that pushing your button isn't going to get someone there in time. I'd rather the inexperienced types were more uncomfortable getting out there, because it makes them more cautious.

I strongly feel that the use of cell phones, sat phones, radios, SPOT, etc are the individual's personal choice. That said, guiding is a different gig and guides have added responsibility. Most if not all guided parties I have seen have some type of communication device.

One thing that is clear in the recent Rainier accident is that everyone in the party chose not to bring a cell phone. I have the same conversation with all my partners at the trailhead: "You bringing your cell phone?" "Nope." "Ok, I'll bring mine."

There is a very accomplished climber who posts here who was involved in two separate accidents in which a climber was seriously injured in lead falls due to loose rock. Both were in REMOTE areas of the Cascades (Mt Terror and Vesper Peak). Although uninjured members of the parties had to climb to high points to get cell reception, fast helicopter rescues plucked the injured climbers off that day. Things could have been very bad had they waited an extra day or two. When they work, communication devices can be lifesavers.

rockymtnclimber wrote: I'll be on Rainier in two weeks, and the only thing with batteries will be my headlamp.

Rainier has highly skilled and trained climbing rangers, guides, and thousands of other climbers. It is not like you are venturing into the wilderness on your lonesome with only your wits and skills to survive.

rockymtnclimber wrote:I'd rather the inexperienced types were more uncomfortable getting out there, because it makes them more cautious.

You are the 'inexperienced type'. Get over yourself.