Dear fellow gear addicts,

I want a warmer, double boot for cold days while climbing in New England and beyond. I currently have Mont Blancs that fit my feet just okay. Nepals fit better, but it's not worth investing in another single boot when I have one that works. Anyway, I'm trying to decide between the Baruntse and the Degre (or maybe Arctis Expe). No, I don't want a 6000m hybrid boot. I have super sweaty feet and I need to be able to dry stuff out over night, especially if I can make my Alaskan dreams come true. The double boot offerings don't seem to have changed much in the last 5-8 years, so it's all pretty much been said before. The inners for both the Baruntse and Degre can be interchanged/heat molded, so comfort shouldn't be an issue. I don't' have the ability to try on boots where I live, so I'm resigned to internet ordering-and-returning. They all weigh roughly 5.5lbs. I've read reports that approaches may be slightly easier with the Baruntse than in a plastic, however, the plastics are way less expensive, and may be found dirt cheap used. They all have the ability to climb ice about as well as I'm capable. Do I have my facts pretty much straight? If you were going to recommend a do-it-all boot, which would you go for? Thanks, gents.

I have owned both the Baruntse and Degre. The Baruntse is a higher volume warmer boot than the Degre so the Arctis Expe is probably a more equivalent plastic alternative. The Baruntse is much more comfortable to hike in since the synthetic material flexes more like a leather boot in the ankle area. When sizing the Baruntse if you know your size in the Nepals start there (I wear 42.5 in both).

I think you have your facts straight. You have a choice between traditional double plastics like Scarpa Inverno, Koflach Arctis/Degre and softer synthetics like LS Baruntse and LS Spantiks. Double plastics are tougher to walk in, but cheaper, especially used. You may want to look around for a deal on the Spantiks, they will be a great, do it all cold weather boot. Performant on technical ground, warm enough for AK.

As far as climbing ability of the various boots, I have owned quite a few different ice climbing boots from single leather, to double plastic, performance oriented single boots, etc. I climbed the hardest ice wearing Scarpa Invernos, Lowe Lightfangs, and straight shafted Pulsar ice tools. My gear is way more high tech now but I don't climb any harder. Less hard in fact. It has a lot more to do with just getting out climbing, something I do less of now.

You may want to rethink the 6000 meter boot, though. Currently available for ~$375 on SierraTradingPost (with a coupon), the Scarpa Phantom 6000 has a removable inner booty, so that may suit your needs. Here is what Dane Burn has to say about them: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/08 ... and-2.html

Also, some of this thoughts on plastic boots: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/09 ... boots.html

I actually ended up going with the Scarpa Phantom 6000. I've ordered a 44 and 45 (no half sizes), as my Mt Blanc are size 44.5, I'm figuring the 45 will work out nicely, but just in case.. Sierra Trading Post's website shows an earlier model of the 6000 - not a deal breaker. After reading Dane's latest blog (that I could find) on the 6000, it seemed a no-brainer (weight, warmth, climbability). I assume I'll end up also purchasing a pair of Baruntse liners, but it'll still come in significantly under the cost of a new pair of boots. Thanks, ExcitableBoy, for the tip!

You bet. FWIW, I wear a 42.5 in Scarpa boots (Summit, Inverno, Manta, and Charmoz). I ordered the 6000's in size 43 and they were far too small. I exchanged them for a size 44, have yet to get them. I suspect the 45 will fit you better than the 44 if your experience is anything like mine.

I read one review in which the wearer actually sized down in the 6000, but I suspect it's because he wasn't planning on wearing thick socks any time. However, if I end up needing something larger, I'll have to go back to waiting, or resign to spending more money than I planned - Sierra trading post did not have a size 46.

From Dane Burn's blog, Cold Thistle, he mentioned sizing up; "I thought the sizing was at least a full size too small. Turns out I wear a 45 from Sportiva and a tight 45 in the new Scarpa Guide and a 46 in the 6000." Quoted from his Scarpa Phantom 6000 review http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/08 ... and-2.html

FWIW, Dane lives in my town, and he has been climbing longer and harder than just about anyone I know. Combined with his background in manufacturing and metallurgy, this makes him one of the most authoritative voices on climbing and skiing gear. Many companies seek his advice when developing products. When making big gear expenditures I always check his blog.

I have owned many pairs of Scarpa boots and 42.5 has always been a perfect fit. The 6000's were too small in a size 43 to even fit the inner booty on my feet. I am sizing up 1.5 EU size to 44, hopefully even that will be enough, or I will go broke with shipping fees trying to get a proper fit. I am supposed to receive the replacement boots today, so I will post up how the larger size fits.

Update, received the size 44 in the mail and they are as close to a perfect fit as I can get. My 'normal' boot size is 42.5, so I think sizing up 1 - 1.5 sizes for the Scarpa Phantom 6000s is necessary.

Now to retire my old boots. Anyone want to buy a pair of Scarpa Invernos with Intuition liners, Superfeet insoles and insulated La Sportiva super gaiters? Plenty warm for Denali. $80.00 buys the whole kit.

ExcitableBoy, you were right - the 44s would be a tight fit with socks. As per Dane's blog, the 44s I ordered came with a 43 insole, and the 45s have a 44 insole. I'm waiting on a pair of 46s to come in, and I'll compare them to the 45s. Fit and comfort in the 45 are actually good so far, but I have no experience other than walking around the house. I will update when I have more to share.

I wear new boots around the house for a few days and will repeatedly kick stair risers to mimic front pointing, step kicking, and walking down hill to ensure I have enough toe room.

Aside from wearing boots around, I assume checking for heel lift, hot spots, toe bang, etc., what other fitment criteria do you use with double boots?

4FunRunner wrote:Aside from wearing boots around, I assume checking for heel lift, hot spots, toe bang, etc., what other fitment criteria do you use with double boots?

I wear new boots (double plastic and single leather) around the house for days, trying out different sock combinations to gauge if they are going to be a good fit. I kick stair risers to simulate front pointing, step kicking, and walking down hill. I also stand on stair treads, balancing on my toes to simulate standing on front points to evaluate stiffness and if there will be heal lift. One thing to bear in mind is that many of the double boots have heat moldable liners, so you will not now how they fit until after the inner boots are baked. The good news is, you can do many things to alter the fit of the inner boots, including the thickness of the socks you wear, the toe cap you use, and the type of insole you use.

I had way too much heel lift with the 46s, and no toe bang with the 45s, so I think it's settled. I'm even going to hold off on the Baruntse liners unless I feel that they're completely necessary.

4FunRunner wrote:I had way too much heel lift with the 46s, and no toe bang with the 45s, so I think it's settled. I'm even going to hold off on the Baruntse liners unless I feel that they're completely necessary.

There you go. Like I said, I have a pretty ideal fit 1.5 EU sizes over my other Scarpa boots.