Want to expand my horizions a bit. Was going to do the 3 day mountaineering course up at EMS in NH. Anyone have opinions, other recommendations, etc? Any help would be awesome.

Graham

I guess a standard advice would be to check IMCS in N. Conway as well:

http://www.ime-usa.com/imcs/mountaineer ... anced.html

What are your goals? That course looks like a good intro to winter snow climbing, but it doesn't cover glacier travel/rescue, it won't teach you rock climbing, and I doubt you'll have time to learn much about avalanche risk.

nartreb wrote:What are your goals? That course looks like a good intro to winter snow climbing, but it doesn't cover glacier travel/rescue, it won't teach you rock climbing, and I doubt you'll have time to learn much about avalanche risk.

I have a decent rock climbing base. I am really looking for a start in winter climbing. I see they offer av rescue stuff as well, plus glacier skills as separate courses.

Just looking to start the progression to head to big peaks. Looking to travel west come next year, and build skills accordingly.

The EMS course looks like a good start. You could just climb mt washington with some other folks who are a bit more experienced and learn that way too.

Have you looked at some of the courses in the PNW? It might be good training for you if you want to do big mountains. I took a 6 day alpine ice climbing class from American Alpine Institute on Mt. Baker and it blew my mind as it was a completely different environment than I was used to in either New England or the Sierra. They offer more extended mountaineering classes as well. I've heard that RMI and others offer good training classes on Rainier, and some of the local California guide services train on Mt. Shasta.

JHH60 wrote:Have you looked at some of the courses in the PNW? It might be good training for you if you want to do big mountains. I took a 6 day alpine ice climbing class from American Alpine Institute on Mt. Baker and it blew my mind as it was a completely different environment than I was used to in either New England or the Sierra. They offer more extended mountaineering classes as well. I've heard that RMI and others offer good training classes on Rainier, and some of the local California guide services train on Mt. Shasta.

Yeah, that's definitely the next step. Looking forward to getting out west!

I'd be wary of the "training" from RMI on Rainier. From what I've seen they are more of a "just get you to the top" kinda firm as opposed to more skills based like Am Alp Inst. I've had good experiences with the latter.

bird wrote:I'd be wary of the "training" from RMI on Rainier. From what I've seen they are more of a "just get you to the top" kinda firm as opposed to more skills based like Am Alp Inst. I've had good experiences with the latter.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

And thanks everyone who has chimed in here!

bird wrote:I'd be wary of the "training" from RMI on Rainier. From what I've seen they are more of a "just get you to the top" kinda firm as opposed to more skills based like Am Alp Inst. I've had good experiences with the latter.

I can confirm that statement. I was on the same route on Rainier as this RMI group, and from what I saw, the people apart of the course hardly knew how to walk in crampons, and the guides were fine with that. It was painful to see such inexperienced "hikers" heading up this mountain they did not belong on.

When they got down to camp the one day, I overheard the group of people who were being guided talking about plans for Denali. Lets hope no one gets hurt

Hotoven wrote:

bird wrote:I'd be wary of the "training" from RMI on Rainier. From what I've seen they are more of a "just get you to the top" kinda firm as opposed to more skills based like Am Alp Inst. I've had good experiences with the latter.

I can confirm that statement. I was on the same route on Rainier as this RMI group, and from what I saw, the people apart of the course hardly knew how to walk in crampons, and the guides were fine with that. It was painful to see such inexperienced "hikers" heading up this mountain they did not belong on.

When they got down to camp the one day, I overheard the group of people who were being guided talking about plans for Denali. Lets hope no one gets hurt

To be fair I think we need to distinguish between guided climbs, where goal of the clients is to get to the top (and maybe learn something in the process), and formal mountaineering courses, where the goal of the clients is to learn something (and maybe do a climb in the process). I'm guessing you probably saw the former when you were on Rainier. I've never done a formal course with RMI but have climbed with people who have, and they had nothing but good things to say about their classes.

One thing I have noted - though I admit it's based on very little data - is that there seems to be some difference in the extent to which formal mountaineering classes are designed to create self-sufficient climbers who can start climbing with others who aren't guides, vs. climbers who have skills needed to go on progressively more advanced guided climbs. My perception is that AAI is a little more focussed than some others on the former. On the other hand, what a lot of clients appear to want is the latter (e.g., getting enough skills to be on a guided rope team because they want to climb Rainier or Denali or Everest or whatever with a guide company), and catering to that market is profitable for guide companies, so you can't really blame a guide company for focussing on that market.

I am definitely in the first camp, that is I want to progress to climbing with other experienced climbers, and not just have the knowledge to go on a guided climb. Looks like AAI is the better choice in that regard long term.

gegarrenton wrote:I am definitely in the first camp, that is I want to progress to climbing with other experienced climbers, and not just have the knowledge to go on a guided climb. Looks like AAI is the better choice in that regard long term.

American Alpine Institute has been great on the two courses I took with them. On the Rainier course when we got snowed off our summit day, we spent the day cruising around the glacier practicing rescue systems, climbing in and out of crevasses, etc. Got a full day of training in.
Then I felt comfortable going back on my own and was able to summit without guides.

Alaska Mountaineering School (AMS)....... and you certainly can't beat the "classroom": The Alaska Range... I know, it's a long way from NH but don't tell me you wouldn't be jacked for it .
Save up and take the 6 or 12 day mountaineering course (frequent flyer miles help too)
www.climbalaska.org