ksolem wrote:I’ve only dabbled with glucosamine myself, never got into it, but what I’ve read points to the following:

One, it works well in some people and not at all in others.
Two, you have to take it regularly for a while to build a level in your system to see results.
Three, it is often combined with the supplement Chondroitin.

I have seen it work miracles in dogs (no placebo effect there.)

Different therapists will have differing opinions as to whether the vmo can be isolated and strengthened on its own. I have seen good results from a “closed chain” exercise which can be done (ideally) on a Pilates Reformer, or on an inclined leg press machine at the gym.

Warning: The big boys in the gym will have a laugh when they see this.

Set the weight light enough that you can press the carriage away while standing on your toes, as if wearing high heels. Depending on the machine, the carriage alone may be enough.

Place your feet parallel, squeezing a 6-8” ball between your ankles. On your toes do sets of 8 – 10 reps. The squeezing action should engage your inner thighs with an accent on the vmo. With a little practice you will find a weight which tires you in 8-10 reps but you are still comfortably on your toes. Avoid any rotation in the legs, concentrate on stability from the center of your body through your hips, inner thighs, knees and feet.

Discuss this with your knee doc and or P/T before going crazy with it to be sure it is right for your specific condition.

Hey Mike, I have been messing around with similar crap for a while too and did not know about the glucosamine. Maybe I'll give it a shot, seems to work for some people here.

There is actually a bunch of exercises (strengthening and stretching) you can do at home so the big boys in the gym won't laugh at you. Put your back against the wall and bend your knees about 25º. Put a soccer ball (or simialr) between your knees and press agianst the ball for ca. 10 sec., repeat 8-10 times, 3 sets. This is basically the same excercise as the one desribed by ksolem. I did PT before and it did help; now I'll have to go back to doing the exercises since my knee is messed up again. It's probably a good idea, once you have it, to stick with the exercises and incorporate them into your regular routine.

Mike,

Get your exercises from a good sports oriented PT, who works in a place where you see motivated people working hard to get better. A positive attitude is key to recovery, and that is much easier to achieve in a positive environment. You live in a big city? Find out who works with the local pro athletes.

Regarding the ball squeezes mstender describes, they are ok but lack the component of leg extension you get by using the leg press.

MikeTX wrote:I've been lucky with my knee doc. He's worked on Yau Ming's knee before, so I figure he knows sports medicine. He did my acl reconstruction on my left knee and it has come back solid as a rock. I'm tempted to tear my right acl and see what happens.

just kidding of course!

Are you sure he is all that good, Yao has not played much last season and he'll be out for most of this season as well. Just kidding!

They say body pH which is even slightly acidic can lead to the condition, as well as many ailments. Contrary to intuition, acidic foods create alkalinity, as against acid-forming foods.

Take a look at this list. http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/foodcharts.htm
See that grapefruit is Alkalising.

Though what most affects body pH is stress. Laughter is the greatest cure-all.

RayMondo wrote:They say body pH which is even slightly acidic can lead to the condition, as well as many ailments. Contrary to intuition, acidic foods create alkalinity, as against acid-forming foods.

Take a look at this list. http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/foodcharts.htm
See that grapefruit is Alkalising.

Though what most affects body pH is stress. Laughter is the greatest cure-all.

They say lots of things, and of course if it's on the web it must be true.

What I find truly amazing about this thread is that the question was about osteoarthritis and glucosamine and none of the so-called answers actually addressed that question. Some talked about the use of glucosamine for various injuries, but not for osteoarthritis. The latest so-called answer seems to possibly talk about osteoarthritis, but not about the use of glucosamine for it.

I guess we all like to talk and don't really care that we are not answering the question that was asked. Oh, and if you're one of the people posting answers, please don't feel singled out; this sort of thing happens all of the time on lots of threads here and if you are really observant you will have noticed that in this post I also didn't address the original question.

MikeTX wrote:Anyone had success with this? My knee doc says I should try it along with PT. TIA

I have a niece and a nephew who are chiropractors, and they both say it's useful. My niece also says vitamin D does great things as well. My physician says it doesn't hurt anything, but he doesn't give it an endorsement either. My wife's orthopedic suegeon says it doesn't do anything, but also says it doesn't hurt either.

I'd vote for the physical therapy route. You'll get some benefit from both the exercises, and the insight of the PT professionals.

moonspots wrote:

MikeTX wrote:Anyone had success with this? My knee doc says I should try it along with PT. TIA

I have a niece and a nephew who are chiropractors, and they both say it's useful. My niece also says vitamin D does great things as well. My physician says it doesn't hurt anything, but he doesn't give it an endorsement either. My wife's orthopedic surgeon says it doesn't do anything, but also says it doesn't hurt either.

I'd vote for the physical therapy route. You'll get some benefit from both the exercises, and the insight of the PT professionals.

I should elaborate here a little, I see. My earlier reply might seem to indicate that I wasn't in favor of the chiropractic advice. Actually, I'm (usually) in full agreement with my chiropractor's advice.

However, I have used glucosomine for knee pain (thinking/hoping that a "rebuild" of the cartilage would be forthcoming), and I discovered that while it MAY have been beneficial, I think the best results came from chiropractic adjustments and correct alignment of the knee joint along with strengthing exercises as recommended by my niece.

There, that's my experience.

MikeTX wrote:As far as the glucosamine goes, I'm taking 2 1500mg doses per day. Supposedly you have to build up the concentration in your body. Since it doesn't hurt anything, I'll probably just keep on taking it and hope for the best.

Hello,

the only thing it will be hurting is your wallet, and the only thing it will be helping is your pharmacist´s.

It´s not that your body cannot make glucosaminoglycans and the related chondoitin sulfate (essentially small protein cores with longish sugar side chains, with variable modifications such as sulfate groups) that make up the bulk of the cartilage lining your joints.

The problem is that the cells sitting inside the cartilage that would have to rebuild the damaged matrix surrounding them are not connected to blood vessels, are metabolically rather quiet, and therefore have a hard time to rebuild the matrix around them once it gets damaged.

This is different in bone, where the cells building bone are supplied by blood vessels, the whole tissue is constantly turned over anway, and which therefore heals much more easily.

In my professional opinion (not as a medical doctor, but as a cell biologist working in regenerative medicine) eating these supplements just makes your sulfur loving gut bacteria happy.

Cheers,

Christian

PS: I have a torn ACl in my left knee. When I went to an orthopedic doctor to help me with a bursal fold I pinched at the back of the knee (normally it is stable, but I turned to much when playing football) he wanted to sell me food supplements for only €2500. Supposedly the back of my patella was a bit rough....

If I had that kind of money to burn I´d sue the bastard for professional misconduct.

edit: typos removed

My relation has both Osteoarthritis and Osteoporosis. The arthritis used to flare up in a day if she ate strongly acid-forming foods, then it would subside over a couple of weeks when abstaining. It is as noticeable as putting the light on and off. Since taking a teaspoonful in water / day of Apple Cider vinegar (not your ordinary table stuff), she can now tolerate quite a lot of acid-forming foods, and all her symptoms are greatly improved. I also take it, and whereas my knees used to get painful on mountain descents, started creaking, as well as my neck, my joints are now running as smooth as Teflon. And believe me, I've given my body tremendous hammerings in 3 sports. So for 55, I'm in great shape.

The body needs to run slightly alkaline in order to protect the gut flora, a key part of your immune system. Otherwise you can be susceptible to permeable gut. In this condition, the body shows autoimmune symptoms, of which arthritic conditions are - and so the body starts to attack itself. Including the joints. I believe Glucosamine is good. Though, as above, there's no need to get drawn in to taking zillions of supplements. Just eat food that grows and isn't manufactured crap.

Acid / Alkali list on this Site.
http://www.energiseforlife.com/list_of_ ... _foods.php

And besides what you consume, stress (or the way you think and react to it) is a major affecter. More than one might imagine. Don't react back to stressful confrontations. Keep your head clear of aggression. And when you need to escape it, head for the peaks and get the hell away from it as you will be protecting the whole body, and instead be producing the wonderful serotonin and dopamine.

Glucosamine and Chondroitan = GREAT STUFF.

I don't care what any study against it says (not that there aren't plenty for it) or what anybody who hasn't even used it says, the proof is in real life and in real life this stuff works great.

2g Glucosamine
1g Chondroitan

Do it daily and see for yourself.

gobriango wrote:Glucosamine and Chondroitan = GREAT STUFF.

I don't care what any study against it says (not that there aren't plenty for it) or what anybody who hasn't even used it says, the proof is in real life and in real life this stuff works great.

2g Glucosamine
1g Chondroitan

Do it daily and see for yourself.

Did it daily and didn't see any results. But hey, if it works for you that's a good thing. It's only money so why not give it a try.

Your Dudeness wrote:

RayMondo wrote:They say body pH which is even slightly acidic can lead to the condition, as well as many ailments. Contrary to intuition, acidic foods create alkalinity, as against acid-forming foods.

Take a look at this list. http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/foodcharts.htm
See that grapefruit is Alkalising.

Though what most affects body pH is stress. Laughter is the greatest cure-all.

Is there any science behind this as in peer reviewed literature? It sounds like a load of crap!

I was thinking about it for while yesterday and also came to the conclusion that it was a load of crap but maybe am missing something. How can foods create any alkalinity in the body if the pH value in the stomach is 2, which means very acidic? I took a look at the food chart and it appears that what they call alkaline foods are healthy foods in general (fruit, veggies, nuts) and the acidic foods are bad stuff (meat, junk food etc.). I am pretty sure that the term "alkaline" foods can be veryfied by measuring the pH value, so I am not sure what this claim is based on. Are there any scientific papers out there? The above webpage appears to be rather pseudo scientific.

Buz Groshong wrote:What I find truly amazing about this thread is that the question was about osteoarthritis and glucosamine and none of the so-called answers actually addressed that question. Some talked about the use of glucosamine for various injuries, but not for osteoarthritis. The latest so-called answer seems to possibly talk about osteoarthritis, but not about the use of glucosamine for it.

I guess we all like to talk and don't really care that we are not answering the question that was asked. Oh, and if you're one of the people posting answers, please don't feel singled out; this sort of thing happens all of the time on lots of threads here and if you are really observant you will have noticed that in this post I also didn't address the original question.

If you'll go back and read my post, you'll see that I related an experience of a close friend who has been diagnosed with Osteoarthritis. Glucosamine was suggested to him by a bone specialist, and it has helped him.

Now, since you mention off topic posts, I will oblige.

When I type "glucosamine", it underlines it and suggests "Gewurztraminer" as a replacement. Maybe you could try that!