"whatever your limit is, it is actually half of what you can do" that's awesome.

stairs and running. half an hour of stairs and half an hour of running. keep it simple. really. training for mountaineering is different from training for climbing. choose the advice on here carefully. some will come from the perspective of a climber. stay for an hour on the stairmaster on the high level and tell me that you didn't get a good workout.

F_Rhoderick wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g7DnGyYGnw

Good stuff.

This topic keeps coming up this time every year. Many ways to get very strong for mountaineering if you live in a flat area, you just have to be creative.

The important thing is to weight load the skeleton for 4-5 hours, about the time to hike from Paradise to Camp Muir.

1. Haul 40 lb backpack while dragging a tire or two: use trekking poles to reduce the load on the legs.

2. If you are short on time, but big on ambition: haul 40 lb pack + 5 lb ankle weights on treadmill at 15 degree incline at 3 mph. About 4000 ft of climb/hour if you remember high school trig.

3. for adjusting well to the altitude, do very hard but short intervals (does not matter which sport you do: run, bike, rowing, etc) with a couple minute recovery to raise your VO2max.

Last time I prepared for Rainier, I ran 1 minute intervals with two minutes recovery, about 15 times, once per week. I did not get a headache the first night at Camp Muir.

A headache showed up early the next morning and it was cured by two isoprofins. Something to be said for that.

These methods have worked very well for me many times in the past and I live in Minneapolis.

I expect Bird to chime in about jacking up the front of his treadmill.

Speaking of Rainier, the pace that the guides take is designed to be very slow, almost a crawl. Even at that, only about 50% of the clients will be able to go above Camp Muir.

I am always amazed how people will drop $2K on guide fees, plane tickets, etc, then show up untrained. Many will drop within the first hour or two and have to go back down.

Forgot to add that my intervals were at 10 mph at 2-4 degree incline.

BigMitch wrote:2. If you are short on time, but big on ambition: haul 40 lb pack + 5 lb ankle weights on treadmill at 15 degree incline at 3 mph. About 4000 ft of climb/hour if you remember high school trig.

I don't disagree with this technique -- which I plan to incorporate later in my Rainier training regimen -- but I think your numbers are off.

Using an online vertical gain calculator, punching in a 15% incline and 3 miles yields an ascent of 2,376' -- still faster than many of the guide companies, but not 4,000'/hour.

FWIW, I'm not going with a guide. Going with my uncle and a few friends. We're planning on spending at least 24 hours at Muir to help acclimate.

This is how I got my number:

Sin = opposite/hypotenuse

(sin)x(hypotenuse) = opposite

[sin(15 degrees)] x [(5280 ft/mile) x (3 mile/hr)] = opposite

sin (15 degrees) = 0.2588

[0.2588] x [15,840 ft/hr] = opposite

4099 ft/hr = opposite

Therefore, 4099 ft/hr are climbed at 15 degrees at 3 mph.

Q.E.D.

BigMitch wrote:This is how I got my number:

Sin = opposite/hypotenuse

(sin)x(hypotenuse) = opposite

[sin(15 degrees)] x [(5280 ft/mile) x (3 mile/hr)] = opposite

sin (15 degrees) = 0.2588

[0.2588] x [15,840 ft/hr] = opposite

4099 ft/hr = opposite

Therefore, 4099 ft/hr are climbed at 15 degrees at 3 mph.

Q.E.D.

I think the grade on treadmills is measured in % not degrees...which would be vertical / horizontal.

y / x = 0.15 = inverse tangent (angle of incline)

if x is 3mph, then y = 3 * .15 = .45 mph. 0.45 mph * 5280 ft / mile = 2376 ft / hr.

Actually the hypotenuse is moving at 3mph (not horizontal) , although this doesn't make much of a difference at this grade. (2350 ft / hr would be more accurate)

As for training, I agree to mix it up, but you should have it centered around the exercise that is most specific to your muscles when you climb Rainer.

IMO, that is hiking up steep stuff. If that is hard to access / hard to get time, get a treadmill and put something underneath the front (cinder blocks) and jack that grade up to something steep (30-50%?). Start with bodyweight and build up gradually to the weight of the backpack that you will actually need on the climb.

This will be more specific than running, cycling, and even stairclimber...although you should mix those in too.

Ze:

Thanks for setting me straight on this! My assumption that the setting 15 meant 15 degrees apparently was all wrong.

Apparently, you have to measure the exact angle that your treadmill gives at a given setting.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Advanced-Mat ... admill.htm

I have been doing too many Runnervals workouts where Coach Troy barks out the change of incline in degrees.

I can buy that 2300 ft number, It is a hard workout, but not that hard.

BigMitch wrote:Apparently, you have to measure the exact angle that your treadmill gives at a given setting.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Advanced-Math-1363/Calculating-percent-incline-treadmill.htm

The answer given in that link is quite detailed, but there is one error.

6A. The 'percent grade' incline is the ratio h/r as a percent. For example, if the belt is 50 inches long between the marks and the difference, h, is 2 inches, that is a 2/50 or 4% grade.

6B. The angle of inclination is arcsin(h/r)

Length "r" here is denoted as the hypotenuse (per 6B), but the true definition of grade is rise over run, not rise over hypotenuse. This will make no measurable difference in the small angles pertaining to the treadmill application, but the way they defined it is technically wrong.

Exercising on stairs (if it's all you really have) will be a huge benefit to your chances on Rainier but will neglect a lot of other things that you'll need, such as ankle stability, lower leg strength, etc. If you were to only climb stairs before going to rainier, you'd end up with tendonitis in your shins and calves when you do Rainier. In other words, try to get your feet on some inclines to work those crucial muscles that will be needed when your boot follows the contour of the land.

I think the MOST EFFECTIVE forms of training I did when i first decided I wanted to climb Rainier was a combination of lunges with weight (either a 20-40lb pack or a couple 10-20lb dumbells in your hands) and treadmill/hiking with a heavy pack.

Doing lunges with a loaded pack will have far more benefit for core strength/balance than just using dumbells. If you don't have all the gear for your Rainier climb and can't load up your pack (like, if you intend to rent or something), just get sacks of seed/corn/feed/etc and put those in your pack. They come in various sizes like 10, 20, 40lbs.

If you have access to an incline trainer or treadmill with incline, you can use that with your loaded pack and go at a walking pace with 15% or more inclination. (15% gradient is roughly 13.5 degrees...) Do not use the handrails on the treadmill!

You'll gain the most strength/power by going hard when you work out. Don't blow your top, but definitely try to workout with intervals of up around 90% of max heart rate.

If you want to combine anaerobic strength training with aerobic cardio work, always do the cardio AFTER your strength training. The reasoning for this is what your body uses as energy. Muscle fiber in an aerobic state (working only as hard as the bloodstream can supply oxygen) can burn glucose or fat but typically the glucose will go first. Anaerobic exercise however needs energy at a faster rate than can be metabolized so it will burn glucose quickly and when the body runs out of that, it will being to catabolize muscle fiber, which will be counterproductive. If you do cardio first, followed by weight training, you will have exhausted your body's glucose supply, not burned as much fat (if that's a goal), and ended up catabolizing your muscle fiber to supply the short term energy needs. By instead performing weight training first you will exhaust most of your glucose/ glycogen stores so when you hit the aerobic exercise your body is lacking in it's preferred fuel source (glucose) so now it'll be more apt to release and burn fat (again, if that's a goal).

You also need to mix in some long-slow-distance workouts... In other words, long (most of the day) hikes with your pack. Start with just the things you NEED in your daypack and add more crap as you build up your training. This is to toughen your tendons, joints, feet, shoulders, and get your body used to being worked for a long period of time.

Do these things and your jaunt up rainier will be ENJOYABLE with little or no physical problems.

to further reinforce the above, check out this little infovid that Whittaker Mountaineering released:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCloUx2R ... L&index=34

Notice they show [Melissa Arnot] doing a combination of strength training (lunges, thigh extensions, leg extensions/curls, rubber-ball situps, etc) incline/step training (stairmill, treadmill with pack, stadium running), and actual long-slow-distance training (hikes).

Keep in mind, step-mills are NOT the same as actual steps because you're only pushing against a moving step to support your weight instead of actually lifting your weight with each step. The work you do will be drastically lower per step on a mill than on actual stairs. Also, don't be afraid of impact while training. Real activity that we train for is high-impact (walking on packed snow, rocks, down inclines, etc) so to train at low impact and then throw your body into the shit is just asking for pain.

nhluhr wrote:Keep in mind, step-mills are NOT the same as actual steps because you're only pushing against a moving step to support your weight instead of actually lifting your weight with each step. The work you do will be drastically lower per step on a mill than on actual stairs.

Hmmm. This is incorrect. There is no difference, unless you are holding the handrail. Simple physics dictates that pushing down on stationary stairs as your body goes up is identical to pushing down on moving stairs as your body remains stationary (except for the negligible amount of air friction on your traveling body in the former case). In either case, the forces of your feet on the steps and the total work performed are the same.