What are the ultimate effects that CAN NOT be determined in the soil and underground environments? Ground Water and underground water sources that can not be measured are affected, right.

All the other natural issues that we as man have no way of determining that have been affected by our misuse of nuclear fuels.

Many can song and dance their way around this issue. But the bottom line is that there will be and can be some major damage to the environment. Anyone that claims that there won't be, is one that we should not listen to.

Remember, anything of this sort can be compromised. The after affects and long term issues damage the environment, regardless of what anyone claims.

No one can guarantee that there will never be another major failure with catastrophic affects within this nuclear power system, regardless of cause...NO ONE!

Far too many variables that can not be controlled with this system.

The Chief wrote:No one can guarantee that there will never be another major failure with catastrophic affects within this nuclear power system, regardless of cause...NO ONE!

Far too many variables that can not be controlled with this system.

Chief, when you find something significant that can be guaranteed with absolute certainty against catastrophic effects, you will be a very lucky man. I could substitute "anthropogenic global warming" for "nuclear power system" above. What is fairly clear is that whatever the US does, Europe and Asia will do what they want with nukes.

For the third time, my main concern is with the most unpredictable component of all: Bubba. I've seen a lot of technically "fool-proof" systems fail because of one idiot human, who intentionally violated multiple redundant safeguards.

You are so irrationally stigmatized against anything nuclear just because you don't understand how FUNDAMENTALLY different the technology can work.

Do you understand that pure thorium fuel is not even dangerous? You have to continuously inject neutrons into it... that means if something in the plant fails, it just stops reacting. This is the complete opposite of the old reactors we've built around a weapons-based scheme where if something fails, everything goes to shit.

The only other source of nearly limitless power is the sun, and harvesting solar power requires two things: MASSIVE natural resource consumption to produce photovoltaics and MASSIVE square footage to harvest the light.

Plus, it's only really viable in middle latitudes so you would then have to construct even beefier transmission grids than we have now to get it to the northern and southern latitudes, plus you now also need massive battery or supercapacitor banks to keep the supply going at night. Does that REALLY sound like a viable approach for a 'green' tech?

There's no such thing as a 0 impact energy scheme.... well, except killing yourself. Personally, I'd rather store 12grams of safe spent fuel in an underground vault in my backyard.

MoapaPk wrote:Chief, when you find something significant that can be guaranteed with absolute certainty against catastrophic effects, you will be a very lucky man.

I have!

My elec power comes from here....


THESE!

My primary heat comes from here...

The Chief wrote:My elec power comes from here....


THESE!

According to the stats from Southern California Edison, only 9% of the power in your grid is geothermal. Fully 84% of SCE's grid is supplied by NON-renewable resources. So don't feel too smug about turning on your big-screen TV. You're burning uranium in San Onofre to do it. I would THINK somebody like you would be interested in replacing coal and uranium plants with something that is significantly cleaner and more efficient, not to mention requires a tiny fraction of mining ore so you don't have as many giant strip mines or mountaintop-removals.

The Chief wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:Chief, when you find something significant that can be guaranteed with absolute certainty against catastrophic effects, you will be a very lucky man.

I have!

My elec power comes from here....

A great irony: in one of my many jobs, I worked around Mammoth Lakes when the geothermal plant was expanded. The opposition from the populace was intense, especially when it was revealed that 60 deer would have to adjust migration patterns to deal with the new power plant. Evil, evil, evil!

Then the locals came up with a plan to connect Mammoth ski areas to June Lake. The analysis showed that 3000 deer would be disrupted. But that was suddenly OK.

I was constantly confronted by folks who were convinced that there would be catastrophic effects from extracting the earth's heat.

Having worked on geothermal for two decades, I can say this: it will never supply more than a very small fraction of the nation's power.

nhluhr wrote:

The Chief wrote:My elec power comes from here....


THESE!

According to the stats from Southern California Edison, only 9% of the power in your grid is geothermal. Fully 84% of SCE's grid is supplied by NON-renewable resources. So don't feel too smug about turning on your big-screen TV. You're burning uranium in San Onofre to do it.

Really....

NOT!

89% is Geo from the Mammoth Pacific Complex and the other 11% is Hydro from the Owens River Gen Station #11 just down the road and in the ORG and Gen Station #26 known as the LV Poole Plant.

To verify this info, please help yurself and call SC&E here in my GRID.

The phone number is 760-934-8236

PS: MOPK, more deer are killed by vehicles in 3 months in this area than the GEO PLANT ever will. Fact.

The BIO's here at the USFS MML & the CAL F&G Bishop office confirmed that during the debate.

Has turned into a pissing contest.

AlpineAffinity wrote:Has turned into a pissing contest.

Negative...Debate.

Watched the video about Thorium reactors, definitely interesting. Sounds like a great source of power.

That is because the chief likes to live in fantasy land. A power source that makes 0 waste...

How many different words can I use to say, ignorant moron. Nah, 2 works fine.

Problem is all of our politicians are ignorant morons too and all the ignorant morons vote for them. Doesn't matter what simple physics says. Doesn't fit into less than a 30s soundbite, for the braindead. So, the rational thing will never get built. Nuclear. Even if it has to be Nuclear built 200 feet underground, will never happen due to ignorant morons like The Chief.

Try reality sometime Chief. Start by opening a physics book and doing a thing called learning. Check out a Thermodynamics book as well.

Options are:
1) Coal
2) Hydropower
3) Oil
4) Cover the planet with solar panels and hope its not cloudy tomorrow.
5) Cover the planet with windfarms and only turn your lights on when the wind is blowing
6) Geothermal and then prepare for massive earthquakes as the swiss? or was it austrians found out about
7) Nuclear where you actually, gasp can turn all that waste into reusable nuclear fuel. Horrors, reality checks in again.
Let morons like Chief puff away with all their ignorant hot air and power the entire world through the expansion of all their gasseous exchanges.

Take #7 with breeder reactors to turn all that "radioactive waste" into fuel again.

Oh yea, search for the youtube video of the fighter jet ramming a concrete structure 2 feet thick. The whole plane vaporizes including the engine. Hmm lets see the containment vessels on nuc reactors are twice this thickness and strength just so the ignorant morons can feel safe. Even though the actual reactor core is buried underground tons of more concrete than just the containment vessel which is built in place in case things go haywire. In otherwords you can completely destroy said containment vessel, and you would not harm the reactor core, which is buried within another few feet of concrete.

Alas for logic and ignorant who won't even admit they are ignorant, and yet blather on as if they know anything.

Sure, if I could take all the nuclear waste and open a breeder reactor in my backyard, or under my backyard, I would. I would be making Billions of dollars selling the fuel back to the nuclear reactor folks.

Its not as if the spent fuel will go boom, or have gasseous outbursts. WHy? They are packed in lead. Yet, ignorant morons have kept the Yucca Mountain site in Nevada tied up in litigation.

Cheers
Heres to hoping for sanity to prevail over the morons of this world

Wastral wrote:That is because the chief likes to live in fantasy land. A power source that makes 0 waste...

How many different words can I use to say, ignorant moron. Nah, 2 works fine.

Problem is all of our politicians are ignorant morons too and all the ignorant morons vote for them. Doesn't matter what simple physics says. Doesn't fit into less than a 30s soundbite, for the braindead. So, the rational thing will never get built. Nuclear. Even if it has to be Nuclear built 200 feet underground, will never happen due to ignorant morons like The Chief.

Try reality sometime Chief. Start by opening a physics book and doing a thing called learning. Check out a Thermodynamics book as well.

Options are:
1) Coal
2) Hydropower
3) Oil
4) Cover the planet with solar panels and hope its not cloudy tomorrow.
5) Cover the planet with windfarms and only turn your lights on when the wind is blowing
6) Geothermal and then prepare for massive earthquakes as the swiss? or was it austrians found out about
7) Nuclear where you actually, gasp can turn all that waste into reusable nuclear fuel. Horrors, reality checks in again.
Let morons like Chief puff away with all their ignorant hot air and power the entire world through the expansion of all their gasseous exchanges.

Take #7 with breeder reactors to turn all that "radioactive waste" into fuel again.

Oh yea, search for the youtube video of the fighter jet ramming a concrete structure 2 feet thick. The whole plane vaporizes including the engine. Hmm lets see the containment vessels on nuc reactors are twice this thickness and strength just so the ignorant morons can feel safe. Even though the actual reactor core is buried underground tons of more concrete than just the containment vessel which is built in place in case things go haywire. In otherwords you can completely destroy said containment vessel, and you would not harm the reactor core, which is buried within another few feet of concrete.

Alas for logic and ignorant who won't even admit they are ignorant, and yet blather on as if they know anything.

Sure, if I could take all the nuclear waste and open a breeder reactor in my backyard, or under my backyard, I would. I would be making Billions of dollars selling the fuel back to the nuclear reactor folks.

Its not as if the spent fuel will go boom, or have gasseous outbursts. WHy? They are packed in lead. Yet, ignorant morons have kept the Yucca Mountain site in Nevada tied up in litigation.

Cheers
Heres to hoping for sanity to prevail over the morons of this world

Anything can be compromised.. anything.

It is those that think their system can never be compromised and is 100% fail-safe, that were/are the true morons/fools throughout the history of mankind.

Covering the West with turbines and solar panels is not the solution.

Out of curiousity what would the solution be? We're going to run out of oil eventually.

Covering the east with turbines and solar panels is a much better solution.

OK, turn the nasty toward me.

I recall another strange debate in the 1980s. We were investigating "magma energy" -- drilling into the supposed magma body below Long Valley (include Mammoth Lakes) and using circulation of steam to derive energy.

Many people were convinced that we were going to trigger a catastrophic eruption in Long Valley. The debate wasn't helped by the fact that one of my colleagues had published a picture showing Long Valley sitting on an immense magma chamber. The debate was eerily similar: "how can you guarantee there will not be a catastrophic eruption?" Well, growing up through quantum chemistry, I couldn't guarantee with 100%...

Scott wrote:Covering the east with turbines and solar panels is a much better solution.

Especially Nantucket Sound.