Diego Sahagún wrote:Perhaps we'll attempt the Tacul in a day for Aiguille du Midi. Is it possible to reach its summit with a slow step and get back to the cable way station in a day

If I were you I would not try it : a trip in one day from Cham (1200m) to Midi (3800m) and to Tacul (4200m) can give some health problems if you're not acclimatized ...
the mountain isn't worth of that risk, I think, Tacul has to be climbed along the Triangle routes, the Gervasutti routes (channel or pillar) or the other strong mixed and rock routes ... the route Tacul-Midi should be considered only to come down
there are so many fine routes in the Alps, Mont Blanc group should be left to well prepared, skilled and fit alpinists

The slopes on the Bosses are less steep that Col Maudit one

well tracked means that you only have to put your feet in the tracks

I've read that the Bosses slope is 55º. Well, I'm going to take my Alpine Club guide now. Yep, I forgot the acclimation. If we attempt Tacul we'd better sleep on Vallee Blanche before summit day. Thanks for you help Gabriele but I bet that the other routes are too difficult for us

gabriele, you suggest that I solo the normal route of Grandes Jorasses?

Diego Sahagún wrote:I've read that the Bosses slope is 55º.

No, it's 40º, the same as on MB du Tacul. Up to 50º below Col du Mont Maudit:

tdoughty wrote:gabriele, you suggest that I solo the normal route of Grandes Jorasses?

I can say that the Normal route of Jorasses is as difficult as the Brenva spur (maybe a little more) but, apart the crossing of the Whymper channel (from the top of Reposoir) is safe and has less objective risks than Gouter route ...
I've seen your "skill" and I think you could do it, it is a great route, as demanding as the Cervino Lion's ridge
the route can give you great satisfaction or the awareness of your training ... YOU MUST FEEL READY for IT

I did it unroped

Diego Sahagún wrote:... Up to 50º below Col du Mont Maudit:

50° look too much, I made a mistake about the lenght of the slope, it looks less than one pitch ...30-40m

Let's say 45º...

Gabriele, we're going to pass a week near Saas Grund (Valais). Would it be possible to ascend Weissmies and descent to that village in a day (taking the cableway) Won't we be acclimated after passing one or two nights near Saas Grund (1559 m) We'll have came from staying another week at Chamonix and doing some short ascents, preferably.

BTW, Grandes Jorasses normal route is graded AD-, icy with pitches of II. 1200 m to the hut and 1400 m to summit so it's not for rookies. I know, you are not

sorry, from Saas I've made only the 4 classic ski-mountaneering summits and none of the Weismiess group ...
I could suggest you the Strahlhorn from Britanniahutte, long but sweet slopes up to Adlerpass and a fantastic view

the normal route of Jorasses is a serious route but is safer than the normal route to Aiguille Verte, as tdoughty wants to climb a 4000 in solo, this is the only one I could suggest in M.Blanc group (AD- is not, for my feeling, the right grade ... for its lenght and the engagement should be considered D-)

Richard Goedeke puts AD- in his 4000ers book...

I think is possible to attempt what I've said. From Saas Grund to Weissmies top is 2500 m gain since from Chamonix to Aiguille du Midi you gain 2800 m in less time. We'd think on Strahlhorn too, even on Breithorn, Allalinhorn (would be a repeat for me) or Alphubel. Lagginhorn and Castor would be possible as well

Diego Sahagún wrote:Richard Goedeke puts AD- in his 4000ers book ...

do you think that Goedecke has climbed it ? , I can remember the grades given by Walter Pause to some routes in his books
after that I trusted only Vallot guide and Rebuffat book

this is the Whymper colouir ...

tdoughty wrote:climbxclimb, phlipdascrip, diego Sahagún,

3 monts, really? do you think the first week of august this year that it would really be safer to solo the 3 monts route rather than the gouter?

must admit that i was thinking that if i had a partner, 3 mont is my route of choice.

The 3 monts route does not have any narrow ridges so passing people is easier and less dangerous than on the Bosses ridge. The mentioned Col du Mont Maudit section - the crux of the route - is the bottleneck though (you have to get in line with other ascending or descending folks).

As for technical difficulty and objective dangers, I did the 3 monts route solo last year in late September when it was something like this:
* well tracked path on the Mt Blanc du Tacul NW flank (that I assume you already did?). Objective dangers: avalanches, occasional serac collapses, two crevasses in the upper part close to the Tacul shoulder ("épaule" in French). Route changes with conditions.
* Col Maudit: rather flat hike, usually well tracked path. obj. dangers: big crevasses in the lower slopes (the path was in a good distance from them), avalanche and serac fall danger when nearing the Maudit N flank.
* bergschrund at the base of the Maudit N flank. when I was there it looked like there had been a snow bridge that collapsed. large and careful high step required. it's likely that a month earlier the bridge was still there, arguably making it safer or more dangerous.
* short, little bit steeper section right above the bergschrund - no mistakes allowed or you slide into the crevasse (there was non-consolidated fresh snow when i did it).
* the rest of the Maudit N flank is similar to the Tacul NW flank until you reach the crux section below the Col du Mont Maudit:
* by my estimation somewhere around 40m in length and about 50 degrees steep. certainly more difficult than anything on the Gouter route, especially in descent. guides usually fix lines here that *might* aid you a bit, but since they're up there all season and see a lot of wear (especially from people pinching them with crampons and axes) not to be trusted. some rocks about two thirds up, either climb through them or bypass left or right. good steps in the snow below the rocks, more loose snow around and above.
* easy slopes to the summit from there (another 2h min.). covered bergschrund along the flat hike to the Col de la Brenva, practically no crevasses after that.

I chose the Gouter route for my descent for a number of reasons, including not wanting to descent the Col du Mont Maudit crux solo. People aside, the Gouter route is very nice, it's just in bad light due to the crowds. And yes it is easier than the 3 monts route for sure, but that might give a false sense of security as you're rather unlikely to stop a fall from the expose sections on the Bosses ridge (beware passing people!), and you have the Grande Couloir crossing on the descent from the Gouter hut. Other objective dangers are not as high. Whiteout conditions on the Col du Gouter are dangerous (getting lost or off track and closer to crevasses). More exposed to winds coming in from the west. Some crevasses in the vicinity of the beaten path, but you should be safe when on-track.

I put up a TR of my ascent last year in case you want to check it out. That's about all the beta I can pass on.

phlipdascrip wrote:

tdoughty wrote:climbxclimb, phlipdascrip, diego Sahagún,

3 monts, really? do you think the first week of august this year that it would really be safer to solo the 3 monts route rather than the gouter?

must admit that i was thinking that if i had a partner, 3 mont is my route of choice.

The 3 monts route does not have any narrow ridges so passing people is easier and less dangerous than on the Bosses ridge. The mentioned Col du Mont Maudit section - the crux of the route - is the bottleneck though (you have to get in line with other ascending or descending folks).

As for technical difficulty and objective dangers, I did the 3 monts route solo last year in late September when it was something like this:
* well tracked path on the Mt Blanc du Tacul NW flank (that I assume you already did?). Objective dangers: avalanches, occasional serac collapses, two crevasses in the upper part close to the Tacul shoulder ("épaule" in French). Route changes with conditions.
* Col Maudit: rather flat hike, usually well tracked path. obj. dangers: big crevasses in the lower slopes (the path was in a good distance from them), avalanche and serac fall danger when nearing the Maudit N flank.
* bergschrund at the base of the Maudit N flank. when I was there it looked like there had been a snow bridge that collapsed. large and careful high step required. it's likely that a month earlier the bridge was still there, arguably making it safer or more dangerous.
* short, little bit steeper section right above the bergschrund - no mistakes allowed or you slide into the crevasse (there was non-consolidated fresh snow when i did it).
* the rest of the Maudit N flank is similar to the Tacul NW flank until you reach the crux section below the Col du Mont Maudit:
* by my estimation somewhere around 40m in length and about 50 degrees steep. certainly more difficult than anything on the Gouter route, especially in descent. guides usually fix lines here that *might* aid you a bit, but since they're up there all season and see a lot of wear (especially from people pinching them with crampons and axes) not to be trusted. some rocks about two thirds up, either climb through them or bypass left or right. good steps in the snow below the rocks, more loose snow around and above.
* easy slopes to the summit from there (another 2h min.). covered bergschrund along the flat hike to the Col de la Brenva, practically no crevasses after that.

I chose the Gouter route for my descent for a number of reasons, including not wanting to descent the Col du Mont Maudit crux solo. People aside, the Gouter route is very nice, it's just in bad light due to the crowds. And yes it is easier than the 3 monts route for sure, but that might give a false sense of security as you're rather unlikely to stop a fall from the expose sections on the Bosses ridge (beware passing people!), and you have the Grande Couloir crossing on the descent from the Gouter hut. Other objective dangers are not as high. Whiteout conditions on the Col du Gouter are dangerous (getting lost or off track and closer to crevasses). More exposed to winds coming in from the west. Some crevasses in the vicinity of the beaten path, but you should be safe when on-track.

I put up a TR of my ascent last year in case you want to check it out. That's about all the beta I can pass on.

When I ascended Mont Blanc I didn't only see the Bosses ridge risky because of many people, the final ridge to the summit was much more dangerous in my opinion. And the Grande Couloir of course. Because of those falling rocks. Rocks from people descending also can reach you from there to Refuge de Gouter

Diego Sahagún wrote:Let's say 45º...

Gabriele, we're going to pass a week near Saas Grund (Valais). Would it be possible to ascend Weissmies and descent to that village in a day (taking the cableway) Won't we be acclimated after passing one or two nights near Saas Grund (1559 m) We'll have came from staying another week at Chamonix and doing some short ascents, preferably.

BTW, Grandes Jorasses normal route is graded AD-, icy with pitches of II. 1200 m to the hut and 1400 m to summit so it's not for rookies. I know, you are not

You can take the cable car almost to the hut. From there it is an easy day. Short answer: yes!

As for the 3Monts (and any of the mentioned routes) it all depends on the conditions.
I did the 3monts solo in the first days of September 2007 afer few days of constant snowfall and I must say that it was quite demanding and not very safe. There were no tracks - fresh snow everywhere, first I lost the right way to cross the crevasses of the Tacul and climbed left to the summit instead of staying to the right and traversing the arm of Tacul as it's normaly done, then the snow was too unstable to traverse the slope of Maudit going to the Col Mont Maudit (or whatever it's called) and I had to climb some steeper terrain staying close to the ridge on the left side and almost climbing directly to the summit of Mont Maudit - which was harder but felt a bit safer at the time (not sure if it really was).
All in all it took me about 12 (!) hours to climb Mont Blanc (instead of 5-6) and then I decided to continue climbing down the normal route in the same push so I reached Les Houches early in the morning next day being completely exhausted (of course). It definitely was one piece of an adventure, although I'm not sure I would be brave/stupid enough to do this again.
Tip: if one day you find yourself the only person climbing a popular route to a popular summit, you may probably consider the conditions not very adequate for climbing

Moni wrote:

Diego Sahagún wrote:Let's say 45º...

Gabriele, we're going to pass a week near Saas Grund (Valais). Would it be possible to ascend Weissmies and descent to that village in a day (taking the cableway) Won't we be acclimated after passing one or two nights near Saas Grund (1559 m) We'll have came from staying another week at Chamonix and doing some short ascents, preferably.

BTW, Grandes Jorasses normal route is graded AD-, icy with pitches of II. 1200 m to the hut and 1400 m to summit so it's not for rookies. I know, you are not

You can take the cable car almost to the hut. From there it is an easy day. Short answer: yes!

Gracias Moni but we won't use the hut for passing any night