Mountain goat kills hiker in Olympics

by **dskoon** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:48 pm

mrchad9 wrote:I know you aren't Tonka.

If the NPS has a hands off approach that's fine. Yes- folks know what they are getting into. But the NPS knew about this particular goat- so I don't think it is correct that it could just as easily been another goat. They shot this goat with bean bags. I'm just saying that is a stupid thing to do. They should either do nothing because they think nothing needs to be done, or kill it because the goat is a problem. The whole bean bag thing is pointless.

Just because the Govt. agency knew about this particular goat, doesn't mean their policy is to shoot it.
Do you know the particular history of said goat and it's "aggressive" behavior? Are you on Olympic's wildlife team? Have you ever served as a wildlife biologist in a National park?
If not, I'd say it's a bit presumptuous to say they should've killed this goat, etc. etc.

by **mrchad9** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:52 pm

I'm not going to get into an arguement with you on terminology. It is pointless and irrelevant to the underlying issue.

The NPS themselves said it was a problem goat, known for aggressive behavior. So much so that had shot bean bags at it. All I'm saying is that was a pointless action to take (as you can see by the results), and if the goat caused them so much concern they should have shot it with something real (as you can see by the results).

Go ahead. Side with the goat.

by **Mountainjeff** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:53 pm

Goats are hunted in the Olympic National Forest. I believe it is even encouraged as they are an invasive species.

Do I think the government is liable for what happened? Of course not! That would be crazy. This has been confirmed as the first animal related death in ONP history. They had no reason to believe the goat would kill someone. The rangers are busy enough keeping humans from harming themselves...

In the end, this is an incredible sad story that likely (hopefully) will never be repeated.

by **Buz Groshong** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:54 pm

mrchad9 wrote:I know you aren't Tonka.

If the NPS has a hands off approach that's fine. Yes- folks know what they are getting into. But the NPS knew about this particular goat- so I don't think it is correct that it could just as easily been another goat. They shot this goat with bean bags. I'm just saying that is a stupid thing to do. They should either do nothing because they think nothing needs to be done, or kill it because the goat is a problem. The whole bean bag thing is pointless.

They knew that it had acted aggressively; that doesn't say that it had attempted to gore someone. It seems that they saw it as a nuisance, but not a danger. I guess you are saying that in Yosemite they should shoot bears that try to break into cars, etc.

by **mrchad9** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:58 pm

Buz Groshong wrote:
mrchad9 wrote:I know you aren't Tonka.

If the NPS has a hands off approach that's fine. Yes- folks know what they are getting into. But the NPS knew about this particular goat- so I don't think it is correct that it could just as easily been another goat. They shot this goat with bean bags. I'm just saying that is a stupid thing to do. They should either do nothing because they think nothing needs to be done, or kill it because the goat is a problem. The whole bean bag thing is pointless.

They knew that it had acted aggressively; that doesn't say that it had attempted to gore someone. It seems that they saw it as a nuisance, but not a danger. I guess you are saying that in Yosemite they should shoot bears that try to break into cars, etc.

Yes! That is EXACTLY what I am saying. In Yosemite they cuddle the bears so softly- bear boxes everywhere and no one killing the bears, so cars get broken into.

However, many areas outside Yosemite have bears too, but thanks to hunting food is safely stored in vehicles, the bears do not get habituated, those that do, die.

by **dskoon** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:00 pm

mrchad9 wrote:I'm not going to get into an arguement with you on terminology. It is pointless and irrelevant to the underlying issue.

The NPS themselves said it was a problem goat, known for aggressive behavior. So much so that had shot bean bags at it. All I'm saying is that was a pointless action to take (as you can see by the results), and if the goat caused them so much concern they should have shot it with something real (as you can see by the results).

Go ahead. Side with the goat.

Not siding with the goat by any means; just attempting to show that there are holes in your logic, based on your lack of knowledge of all the facts. Who knows, except the biologists involved, what the past "aggressive" behavior was?
See Buz's post. . .

by **mrchad9** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:03 pm

You haven't pointed out holes. You only said you did to try to create the appearance of a stronger argument on your side.

See my posts. . .

by **dskoon** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:21 pm

I have seen your posts, and tried, along with others, to show you. . .
But, I"m not going to argue ad infinitum with you.
You think it, the goat, (or bears in Yosemite), should've been shot based on its past aggressive behavior. Fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

by **lcarreau** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:57 am

mrchad9 wrote:Goats are not hunted in Olympic NP ...

They ARE game animals.

by **Bombchaser** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:22 am

Goat meat is excellent, especially on the BBQ!!! If he had a gun he could have had a BBQ instead of a funeral. Dammit all!!!!!! Between all of the goat, bear, cougar, and human attacks lately, I will be instituting a new policy for myself. It's called; I will carry my new Glock .45 auto everywhere!!!! Oh and then there's the wolves that have moved down into the Oregon Cascades now too. I say bring it! :evil:

Actually I lied....I might choose to carry my .357 magnum instead. Depends on the mood I'm in I guess. :twisted:

Got to watch out for sasquatch also.....damn things are everywhere.

The following user would like to thank Bombchaser for this post
mrchad9

by **mrchad9** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:25 am

Bombchaser is back!!! Yipppieee!!!!!

Where ya been? I was thinking this thread could use a bit more reasonableness. If the NPS is for coddling assassin crazed goats, I am FOR carrying weapons in national parks.

by **lcarreau** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:34 am

Bombchaser wrote: Got to watch out for sasquatch also.....damn things are everywhere.

Yeah! For a minute there, I thought I was tuned into Animal Planet.

I've also heard that "Sasquatch thighs" were quite tasty!

by **Bombchaser** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:01 am

mrchad9 wrote:Bombchaser is back!!! Yipppieee!!!!!

Where ya been? I was thinking this thread could use a bit more reasonableness. If the NPS is for coddling assassin crazed goats, I am FOR carrying weapons in national parks.

Yeah I have been busy running to all of these damn bomb contracts. But after reading this on NWCN, I figured I should check Summit Post and see if it was on here. Sure enough, and I couldn't resist putting in my two cents. I haven't climbed a mountain in months and I'm ready to hit the hills!

by **Brian Jenkins** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:45 am

The point I was trying to make, mrchad9, is that your apparent sense of killing something seems a bit, uh, cavalier. Reminds me of Jimbo and Ned on South Park. I'm not saying this goat shouldn't have been destroyed. I'm just saying that all life has at least some value. And you saying "they should be shot with bullets at the first sign of aggressive behavior" and "It's just a game animal" make you look like you blow away anything out there that looks cross-eyed at you. I'm no tree-hugging hippie type, trust me, but, man, that's a scary attitude. Hope that is not the case.

by **mrchad9** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:00 am

Brian- I'm not ready to just blow anything away- as Bombchaser could attest to. He and I have been in lengthy discussion on guns in NP, with me pretty much against them.

But as I said on the previous page, if this is how the NPS manages wildlife, I can see why folks should be able to be armed should they choose.

I'm not a hunter, but I have hunted. Yes, all life has some value, but this species is killed regularly all the time for much more benign reasons than aggressive behavior. Obviously this animal was an issue for the NPS to be harassing it with bean bags. I just think going to such lengths is unnecessary when it would be shot dead the second it steps outside the park boundary anyway.

I wouldn't shoot an animal with bean bags that looked cross-eyed at me. But I don't think the NPS would either. So it fairly safe to assume the animal did something worse than that. Not trying to be cavalier, but the NPS takes an overly conservative approach. As a result a good man is dead and his wife is now a widow.

More info:

Another friend of the victim, Tom Bihn, of Port Angeles, said he personally had several unsettling encounters with the goat he believes injured Boardman, 63. "He aggressively charged toward me," said Bihn. "He charges up to you, stops six to 12 feet away, snorts and scratches the ground to indicate he's in charge."

Park officials acknowledge that the goat that gored Boardman in the thigh and then stood over him to prevent others from coming to his aid was among several goats which, over the past four years, have become increasingly aggressive.

From here:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... ts19m.html

Mountain goat kills hiker in Olympics

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