Telemark

by **Sierra Ledge Rat** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:10 am

Ed F wrote:Telemark is Norwegian for "slow hippie." Randonee is French for "can't tele."

And Snowboard is German for "can't ski."

Congrats on the switch. Been there, done that. I switched from snow shoes, and have done AT since 1979 and telemark since 1989. I found that I can ski much harder terrain more gracefully on tele gear than when I'm locked down. But that's not typical.

If you don't know how to ski, you have to start with lessons and lifts. Get yourself a cheap season pass to a small local ski hill. Think Ski Cooper, not Aspen. I learned telemark at the old ski area in Colorado Springs. The best tele lessons I ever had were from a cool "bi" chick in Santa Fe ("bi" = alpiner and tele skier).

Forget about trying to learn inexpensively by hiking up hills. You will get in great shape doing that, but you won't learn to ski very well anytime in the 21st Century.

I agree with the recommendations for AT. If you can get some plastic climbing boots that fit into AT bindings, that's the ticket. One pair of boots for the ski in, climb, and ski out.

The only advantage that telemark has over AT is the foot flex. (Maybe weight, too.) The AT system is rigid and when you are skinning up the trail your foot isn't flexing naturally. This is not a big deal for a simple approach. But if you are going to spend a week touring on the uphill and flats, it can cause a lot of foot pain. I did a 10-day traverse of the Sierra Nevada on AT gear and I was MISERABLE after about 4 days.

If you go telemark, you're going to need to carry your climbing boots on your back.

Telemark is wonderful for skiing for the sake of skiing. Graceful when done correctly, but 90% of telemark skiers neither ski gracefully nor correctly. Thankfully that is changing as more and more people ski tele for more and more years. As my knees get older and muscle mass decreases, though, I found that I have become a "paramarker" so I might as well stick with AT. But I just can't give up my revered floppy heel.

Regardless of your chosen boards, riding the lifts and skiing on courduroy is the fast lane to proficiency.

I've dealt with Bent Gate for 20 years, always been happy with 'em.

by **96avs01** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:26 am

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:
Ed F wrote:Telemark is Norwegian for "slow hippie." Randonee is French for "can't tele."

And Snowboard is German for "can't ski."

keep propagating the hate SLR

by **Sierra Ledge Rat** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:23 pm

96avs01 wrote:
Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:
Ed F wrote:Telemark is Norwegian for "slow hippie." Randonee is French for "can't tele."

And Snowboard is German for "can't ski."

keep propagating the hate SLR

No worries, mate! The pleasure is mine!

by **Joe White** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:51 pm

another vote for AT! Better in the steeps...and if you are already a skier....no tele learning curve (even though tele is a really great pursuit).

Here is a will gadd article on telemark skiing for those interested:

http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2010/11/ ... -dead.html

The following user would like to thank Joe White for this post
Bill Kerr

by **asmrz** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:51 pm

It just depends what one wants to do in the backcountry. If big tours are in your future, tours with multi-day packs and in high alpine terrain, AT is the only way to go. I skied AT when very few people did (in the 80s) and touring with Telemark skiers who were much better skiers than myself, I found that I, mediocre alpine skier, was able to out ski them all the minute the terrain got steep, the slopes icy and a bit complicated and the packs heavy. It was the equipment, wider skis, stiffer boots, better control with pack on one's back. Since then, Telemark gear evolved into AT gear with open heel, so the gap is narrower now. The Telemark turn still remains the most beautiful way to go down snowed in hill, but learning it and practicing it takes a time. Someone once told me if you dont do at least 30 days telemarking in a season, forget it.

by **tfarkas** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:15 pm

A lot of posts on this thread talk about how telemark turns look graceful. Truth. Here's another truth, and one I find way more important: telemark turns feel f***ing awesome. Learn to make proper tele turns in the pow (or anywhere) and you'll never want to make another alpine turn again. Promise. You'll also wind up with legs like pistons and twice the face shots! free your heel and your soul will follow = cliche.

It's also truth, however, that even highly experienced alpine skiers will take some time to learn how to tele well enough to tackle hard terrain, including steeps, tight trees, bumpy stuff, shitty coverage/ice, cliffs, and heavy pow -- often there's a nasty (eventually way fun) combination of these out there. Learn to tele well at the resort first, or at least somewhere outside where you're not worried about sucking it up.

let it snow

by **Joe White** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:25 pm

tfarkas wrote: Learn to tele well at the resort first, or at least somewhere outside where you're not worried about sucking it up.

Yeah, I just got back from a ski touring trip...and two of the guys on the trip were tele guys (30+ years) and that was their advice as well.

by **Sierra Ledge Rat** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:39 pm

tfarkas wrote:...hard terrain, including steeps, tight trees, bumpy stuff, shitty coverage/ice, cliffs, and heavy pow -- often there's a nasty ... combination of these out there. ....

There's no such thing as bad snow. Only bad skiers.

by **asmrz** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:20 am

Interesting comments. IMO, it all depends if you want to learn the Telemark turn to be able to ski steep terrain in a ski area or on a day trip in a backcountry with a lot of skiing down. If that is your plan, Telemark is as good (or better) than AT. But if you want to go on tours or even better, on mountaineering tours with skis, if you want to carry multiday pack in the backcountry or approach climbs, AT is the only way to go. The steeper the touring terrain gets, the more icy, uneven conditions, the better AT gets. We all have various experiences and they color our opinions, but there is place for Telemark and another place for AT. Most people have experienced skiing via downhill in a ski area, so they are familiar with the alpine skis and turns. AT is the same, except you can free your heel, put skins on and go up. Telemark turn is totally different. It needs to be practiced. So if you want to spend time practicing the turn, fine, it's beautiful, but needs to be practiced. If you want to get into the backcountry now, get AT set up and go. One season at the ski area with AT set up and you will be (most likely) ready. Telemark in one season? I think not.

by **The Chief** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:44 am

Here is a great site with some of the best info in the business by one of the best BC/AT Skiers to have ever put on two planks and ski em...

Lou Dawson's "Wild Snow"

by **mike_lindacher** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:48 am

try teletips on the net. loads of "beta" ....

by **T Sharp** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:34 am

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:
tfarkas wrote:...hard terrain, including steeps, tight trees, bumpy stuff, shitty coverage/ice, cliffs, and heavy pow -- often there's a nasty ... combination of these out there. ....

There's no such thing as bad snow. Only bad skiers.

I did not see breakable crust on that list! I consider breakable crust "bad snow".
Tele turns in powder are better than...you name it...tele turns in powder are better!
It takes at least a full season on area to get even reasonably proficient enough to head into the backcountry.
The OP asked a question about the differences of skiing in Sierra, PNW and CO, and I might add Utah, and Montana/WY
There is a huge difference in snow pack analysis and avalanche conditions. Learn from a local!
AT is better for climbing approaches, but if you want to ski, think tele.

by **T Sharp** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:02 am

You forgot the addendum and provisos mattski! To-wit, if you ski well, and you are in great shape, and you are a natural athlete, and you have cat like balance, and you can laugh at yourself, and you have lots of patience, you have a genuine desire to learn, [and I know there are more provisos] then you will pick it "pretty fast", which is a subjective statement btw.
And also btw, you can only scream wooooooohoooooo if your dreds are dragging in the snow!