Fletch wrote:crashed a scooter into a restaurant in Belgium.

Sounds like since you moved there, the quality of the drivers in Denver has certainly dropped.

I personally hate driving in Denver, I just don't see it being any worse than any of the other big cities I've driven through in the US.

Everything you said could describe drivers in the suburbs of DC as well. Maryland finally put a law into effect this past fall banning using your cell phone while driving without a device like bluetooth etc. (except when turning the phone on/off) and it barely put a dent into use of cell phones while driving.

As for pedestrians crossing at will around here, my husband and I have watched the Pedestrian Safety Campaigns only encourage pedestrians to cross whenever the urge strikes them (no pun intended). Traffic at many intersections will suddenly come to a halt at a green light all because a pedestrian has decided to cross against his/her light and in the process nearly caused multiple fender benders.

Strangely enough the only city and state we found civil in driving manners was Washington. Seattle was especially friendly when we as tourists were picking our way through the freeways even at rush hour. After two weeks in Washington state we became convinced that the nicest drivers were found here!

I lived in WA state for 8 years. Actually, you don't even need a car in western Washington.

A commuter train can take you from Olympia to Seattle in a jiffy, with several stops along the way.
When you exit the train, you can either walk, ride a bicycle or take advantage of the mass transit
system.

But, if you want to go climbing in the Cascades, you'll probably need a set of wheels.

im sure the drivers down in Denver are a lot more courteous then the cyclists here in Larimer County!

LA drivers are far worse than most places, including Denver. The fact is that people are more reliant on their vehicles there than most places due to the inadequate mass transit options available. The fact that the LA metro area probably has 2 to 3 times the population of Colorado shouldn't be ignored, either. I would say, in general, that people can afford to get away with more in Cali because there is a lower state patrol:capita ratio (it's always struck me that way, anyway)- yeah, you're speeding. So is everyone else around you, & there's a good chance that one of the infinite number of people around you will get pulled over instead of you. Every time I've driven in LA, 80mph (or more) in extremely density is the norm. And just because texting & using ones cel phone is illegal here has nothing to do with the amount that both of these activities is still performed

If you want to talk about bad drivers, I would say try to get out of the California mountains during the winter before work on Monday. I've literally waited hours after some dumbass slid his truck into a ditch, then couldn't figure out why he couldn't get out when he floored it, & it just kept on digging itself in deeper... Over 50 cars had to wait for the tow truck to arrive from down valley. The CHP officers on scene were inept as well. This example is a normal winter occurrence. That's what happens when a state enacts overly-restrictive chain control laws that keep the lowland (coastal) drivers with questionable judgment from ever aqcuiring any solid snow-driving skills.

Dangerous driving conditions in California:

ohhhh yes...I have lived in the Seattle area for 18 years and thought driving was bad there until I moved to Denver.
The issue is the large amount of cops that enforce the driving laws in WA, CA, TX and most other areas of the country.

In Colorado however, you can get away with just about anything (same in Utah). This makes drivers in all of Colorado and Utah absolutely crazy...
And when you go west on I-70 from Denver, once you cross the Eisenhower tunnel, you will not see another cop until you hit the retirement community of Cedar City Utah

BTW, if you think Devner is bad...be very afraid for your life if you're in Grand Junction

LOL Denver drivers are tame.. The bicyclists on the other hand mostly all need to be ran over for the good of everyone who wants to drive the streets safely. Not all pedal fairys but most of them

I hear you. I hate driving in Denver.

Yes, Denver folks love to blame everything on California. Yes, I have a bad tattoo.

LA rule: 3 cars turn left on red before oncoming traffic moves.

Denver rule: wait 2o minutes before turning left because the jackwagon in front of you is afraid to turn in front of an oncoming car half a block down the road.

You have to be a good driver to drive in LA. And you have to be especially good at parking! By the way, I think eastern Europe has the worst drivers, particularly Slovakia. Even worse than south Florida.

sarah.simon wrote:

Bob Sihler wrote:Edit: Salt Lake has never seemed that bad to me.

I visit SLC at least once (often twice) per month for business. I call the driving there "Every Saint for Himself."

These two posts prove the point beautifully. When I moved to the Salt Lake area 7 years ago (from the DC area), I thought the drivers were quite tame and well-mannered. Hell, people move over when you want to get on the freeway! What the hell is that?!

But over the course of 7 years in Utah, I heard endless bitching, from locals and out-of-staters alike, about how bad the drivers there were. I still don't see it.

I've wondered whether the "worst driving" cities are just those that have people from all over the country. I lived in a college town that had Californians, Utah locals, East coasters and everything in between, and it seemed like there was sometimes chaos as a result. Where I'm from you don't let people merge unless they prove they want it, but other people expect more courtesy. The kids from southern California were rolling through stop signs and everyone seemed shocked. There was no established order because everyone came from different learning backgrounds.

Just a thought....and that would explain DC's notoriety, what with all the recent immigrants, embassy employees, etc driving around.

My wife lived in the Seattle area a long time, and her beef with Washington drivers was their habit of slowing to a near-stop at the top of a freeway onramp, then trying to merge in with the flow. I saw that a couple times when up there in 2004. I surmise it had to do with the short on-ramps and short merge lanes. I've seen it here in the Phoenix area - a car with WA plates slowing to a crawl while entering the freeway.

I have noticed the following themes with California drivers: (1) They tend to stay in the left (passing) lane on the interstate, even if not passing, only moving to the right to allow someone to pass them; (2) rarely using headlights on two-lane routes during the day and (3) entering freeways by cutting through the gore point instead of staying in the entry lane. I used to live in CA and I did all three of these things. In the case of (3), many freeway on-ramp merge lanes are so short that you tend to get into a flow land asap, which meant cutting the gore point if you had to.

I am not necessarily picking on, or defending, any city's set of drivers. I do believe we pick up habits based on our home cities. Thus, a driver used to driving in L.A. feels comfortable with the controlled chaos of SoCal, whereas someone from an outside big city won't know all the nuances at first. For example: people honk more often back east. You almost never hear that in the west (as far as I've seen) since that usually gets you a one-finger salute or worse.

Drivers in rural areas also have their share of habits: stopping in the middle of a road to chat, windows down side-by-side, traffic be damned, or simply travelling about 20 mph below the speed limit.

I learned ages ago, especially when I had a motorcycle, to assume most everyone else is a non-attentive idiot, and to do the thinking for them. Be hyper-attentive and never assume they see you (or much of anything).

I lived in LA for 3 years, Boston for 4, and now New York city for 2. I visited Denver and drove around a lot for a week this September and didn't notice anything in fact i found it much more relaxing than the 3 places i listed. I find driving in Manhattan the most stressful due mostly to cabs swerving in and out of lanes, LA sucked because I found people just didn't pay attention and did whatever they wanted, Boston sucks because people generally feel they are in competition with you and try to "win".

I moved here (CO) from Las Vegas, and I'm thought it was pretty tame here, compared to LV. LV drivers scared me! And I'm used to pretty heavy traffic (Seattle).