Is there any need for bear proofing on FTD? I am aware of the mountain goats and marmots, just wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard reports of bear finding their way onto the plateau.

I must visit the place called Froze to Death Plateau. It sounds so inviting.

Yeah Excitable, should be interesting. I've never been on FTD. I tried Granite via the SW Couloir 2 years ago. Was flushed out by bad weather and my wife not being happy once she realized what I got her into.

Planning on attempting it in August via FTD. I should have went that way with my wife last time and just left her in the tent on FTD with a book to read until I got back.

All the pictures I've seen just don't seem like they provide any food source or purpose for bears to be up there, still want to make sure before I bust out the Snickers in the tent.

Doesn't Montana have a breeding population of Grizzlies? A climbing party was attacked by a bear on the Tokositna Glacier in the Alaska Range many miles of difficult glacier travel from any bear habitat. I would think it would be a piece of cake for a bear to hike up FTD plateau. If you ask a ranger, I'm sure they would advise using one. BTW, I have been researching a trip to Granite Peak and have found precious little information given the fact that it is a state highpoint.

There are black bears and perhaps griz down in the valleys. I think you'd be very unlikely to see a bear up there, but it's always possible for one to be crossing drainages or looking for moths or something like that.

HTH, Nick

nickhowes wrote:There are black bears ...looking for moths or something like that.

HTH, Nick

It was my understanding that, please correct me if I am wrong, bears only go looking for picinic baskets. Eh, Boo Boo?

ExcitableBoy wrote:It was my understanding that, please correct me if I am wrong, bears only go looking for picinic baskets. Eh, Boo Boo?

don't forget the hot pastrami sandwiches!

Yeah Excitable, "experts" say that the grizzlies are on the southside of Granite, through Cooke City, and into Yellowstone. They say there are "no" grizzlies on the north side of Granite. I find that very hard to believe. I don't think a few mountains are going to contain them all.

I'm sure there are bears all along the trails, just wasn't sure if they had any purpose for going up to the windscorched Plateau. I'll prob just bring a container and keep it next to somebody else's tent, at least 50 to 100 yards from mine.

gwave47 wrote:I'll prob just bring a container and keep it next to somebody else's tent, at least 50 to 100 yards from mine.

Good thinking. A good tip to remember when running away from a bear is that you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your climbing partners.

gwave47 wrote:Yeah Excitable, "experts" say that the grizzlies are on the southside of Granite, through Cooke City, and into Yellowstone. They say there are "no" grizzlies on the north side of Granite.

Who are these "experts" you speak of? Here's recent range map produced by actual experts:

from MT Field Guide, Grizzly bear

Griz have been well documented north of Granite in the Boudler, Stillwater, and Rock Creek drainages, and even occasionally in West Rosebud Cr according the MT NHTracker Records (http://mtnhp.org/Tracker/NHTMap.aspx). Records do indicate greater abundance south of the Beartooth Crest, but not an absence of griz north of it.

gwave47 wrote:I find that very hard to believe. I don't think a few mountains are going to contain them all.

I concur. The "experts" you refer to are mistaken. Actual wildlife biologists would disagree, based on the data.


That being said, I have yet to hear of a griz on FTD and I doubt many people worry about them up there. I've slung food over large boulders or rock faces in Huckleberry Crk and by Arrow Lakes, but not on FTD largely due to lack of good hang sites. A bear-resistant food storage container is certainly a good idea, but I'm guessing most would see it as overkill on top of FTD. Goat-resistant storage is more important, IMO.

Peakhugger, I would even challenge that map. I just can't believe that there would be a population in Yellowstone and South West Montana, then another population beginning north of Helena, but nothing in between. I just find it hard to believe that there aren't grizzlies between Helena and Bozeman, when they are just north and south of these areas. Wouldn't the two populations slowly migrate towards each other until they fill in the gap.

The map I saw on Wikipedia, which was by another biologist (at least he says he is, who really knows) shows almost the same map, but the southern population stops just barely north of the Wyoming - Montana border. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ursus ... is_map.svg

I think regardless, a 10,500 foot windscorched plateau should be an unlikely place to run into a bear, but then again, I'm not an expert.

gwave47 wrote:Peakhugger, I would even challenge that map. I just can't believe that there would be a population in Yellowstone and South West Montana, then another population beginning north of Helena, but nothing in between. I just find it hard to believe that there aren't grizzlies between Helena and Bozeman, when they are just north and south of these areas. Wouldn't the two populations slowly migrate towards each other until they fill in the gap.

This is a fair question. I can tell you at this point, FWP has no confirmed resident grizzlies north and west of the Tobacco Roots and south of MacDonald Pass. There are rare reports of sightings of transient griz in the gap, including at least 2 positively confirmed grizzlies in the Butte area in the last 5 years, one north and the other west. (There's another possible corridor in the Big Belts/Bridgers that I don't have any info on.) There are a few possible explanations for this absence:

1. Grizzlies are slowly colonizing these areas, but have yet to close the gap
2. The habitat isn't as ideal, either in quality or volume (resource limiting)
3. Human presence is greater with fewer quiet places for grizzlies to exist (griz behaviorally avoid this area)

I would personally favor #1. This stems from reports over the years of more griz sighted south of the NCDE and north of the GYE. Griz may just be recolonizing these areas slowly, possibly as a function of increased dispersal due to increasing pop densities in the NCDE and GYE. But there are likely truths in #2 and #3 as well. The habitat, particularly in terms of human influence and road density, may not be able to support "high" population densities of grizzlies. It's also a lot drier, which from my limited observations doesn't support as many berries or other preferred griz foods (the Boulder Batholith between Helena and Butte is particularly dry and sandy). See the references below for more info.

FYI: here's one example of estimated habitat suitability for griz in the northern Rockies (developed from Craighead Institute data):

Note the lack of good, continuous habitat between the NCDE and GYE. However, also note the expanse of suitable, but nearly unoccupied habitat in the Bitterroot/Idaho. Hopefully grizzlies will recolonize that area with resident bears soon. The first confirmed bear in that area was shot in 2007.



A small sample of literature for the ecology nerds like myself:
Kendall, K. C., Stetz, J. B., Boulanger, J., Macleod, A. C., Paetkau, D. and White, G. C. (2009) Demography and Genetic Structure of a Recovering Grizzly Bear Population. The Journal of Wildlife Management, 73:3–16.
Mace, R. D., Waller, J. S., Manley, T. L., Ake, K. and Wittinger, W. T. (1999) Landscape Evaluation of Grizzly Bear Habitat in Western Montana. Conservation Biology, 13:367–377.
Mattson, D. J. and T. Merrill. (2004) A model-based appraisal of habitat conditions for grizzly bears in the Cabinet-Yaak region of Montana and Idaho. Ursus 15 Workshop Supplement:76-89.
Nielsen, S.E., G. McDermid, G. B. Stenhouse, and M. S. Boyce. (2010) Dynamic wildlife habitat models: Seasonal foods and mortality risk predict occupancy-abundance and habitat selection in grizzly bears. Biological Conservation 143:1623-1634
Schwartz, C.C., M.A. Haroldson, and K. West, editors. (2010) Yellowstone grizzly bear investigations: annual report of the Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team, 2010. U.S. Geological Survey, Bozeman, MT.

One thing is well documented, bears live in Jellystone Park where thy steal picinic baskets. Eh, Boo Boo?

Okay I'm gonna chime in on this one...

I've spent three of the last five summers living, working, and occasionally climbing mountains in Glacier National Park. Up there, it is VERY COMMON for grizzly bears to be present well above treeline during the summer months. I have personally seen Grizzlies at about 9,000 feet on Mount Siyeh. Good friends of mine have encountered a Grizzly near the 9,513 foot summit of Rising Wolf Mountain. In fact, I have spoken to mountaineers who have seen scat on the summit ridge of 10466 foot Mount Cleveland, the highest mountain in the park.

Grizzly bears go up there most often in search of army cutworm moths. This behavior is documented on the popular "Planet Earth" series on the discovery channel a few years ago, and also on the PBS series "Nature". They have also been documented well above treeline digging for rodents. Here is a link some video of bears feeding on moths way up high in the Northern Rockies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSFMObszwHw

Here is another relevant link about this topic:

http://www.backpacker.com/ask_a_bear_ba ... ival/15513

Anyway, the point is that there is certainly "a chance" of running into a grizzly on the FTD plateau, or anywhere else above treeline in grizzly country . Bear proofing is certainly an appropriate precaution. At the very least, falling asleep with a snickers in your pocket is probably not a good idea.

Good luck on Granite. Happy climbing.

I spent the night on FTD Plateau once. With no hanging options, I just stashed my food well away from where I slept and hoped for the best. No problems, but as the above poster said, there is still a chance of a griz being up there.