Autoxfil wrote:

asmrz wrote:I have been searching for a light alpine pack no less than 2,500 c.i. and not much more than 3,000 c.i. and I'm still searching.

http://coldcoldworldpacks.com/chernobyl.htm

1) Bombproof
2) Simple
3) Light
4) Made in NH. Call Randy and chat.

Hmm, this is quite intriguing. Do you know anything about their large-size pack (the Chaos), i.e. is it actually suitable for substantial loads for multi-day trips (50 pounds plus)? Thanks!

I've used the Chaos and it carries and climbs similarly to the WT Andinista, with the same limitations. A 50 pound load will wreck your back. My partner used a Chaos on a big Alaskan Grade 4+ and complained he felt like it was 'cutting him in half' while free climbing over roofs and steep terrain, and he had maybe 40 pounds in it once the ropes and rack and harness and ice tools and crampons and helmet were worn. A friend who has used these big, framless packs in South America says he stuffs the pack full, then straps the pack onto a frame from an old frame pack for the approach. I have a similarly sized pack but it has two vertical aluminum stays which make carrying heavy loads very comfortable. Mine is a custom built McHale, stripped down and built with the lightest materials available at the time and with a hip belt made for one of his day packs. All around it climbs and carries far better than either the Andinista or Chaos and weighs only a little more than a pound more. McHale's packs are even lighter now with spectra and spectra grid fabrics.

I was going to say the same thing as Exitable Boy. I have an Andinista, have had it since early 90's. If you load these frameless packs with more than 40 lbs, they don't carry well. They are totally climbing specific packs. Overnight trip on a big mountain (ex South America) with sleeping bag, crampons, bivi sack, ice tools, rope, alpine gear, some extra clothing, gloves and food/water is about it. Overload it and it is almost unmanageable. The Chaos is almost identical concept as Andinista. Agree with EB totally.

Thanks Excitable Boy and asmrz. That was more or less the answer that I expected, but good to confirm.

Cheers!

As always it depends on just what you want to use the pack for. I agree with asmrz et al above re: 40lbs (18kg) in these light packs though.

I have way (way) too many packs, though nearly all of them have had significant climbing use. I've used GoLite Jam, GoLite Pinnacle, Cilogear 45, Cilogear 40 (white dyneema), Macpac Ascent and several others (the Macpac is not really 'ultralight').

Of all those the Cilogear 45 carries best, but 20kg would be the max load, even for hiking. John Bouchard, founder of WildThings, inventor of the Andinista, is on record saying that alpine climbing on technical routes with more than 15kg is pretty much impossible. On easier alpine routes with no steep ice or rock climbing I've carried 25kg but that is hard work and doesn't leave much margin for harder moves.

I used the GoLite Pinnacle on Gasherbrum 1 and it was OK but I realised then that about 18kg was it's limit, and that was just snow climbing. I used the Cilogear 40 in Nepal a couple of years ago and had it overstuffed with gear/food for 3 days at 5500m-6400m, it probably weighed 18-20kg and it was actually pretty uncomfortable on the approach. I think a Cilo 60 is a better choice for expeditions.

I also have a Gossamer Gear pack, but it's so flimsy I've never been game to take it on an expedition. Except in very rare cases, if something can't be used most of the time on expeditions then it's just extra weight and is rarely justifiable.

DO NOT BUY THE PURSUIT!
I bought one and used in on Rainier to climb Liberty Ridge. The belt buckle broke the first day and it barely made it through the trip. Then I had two straps just pop off as I was tightening them. This is not a pack designed for rugged use. If you baby it, it might be good, but who wants to baby their pack...
My partner used the Jam and did fine, but I would stay away from Go-Lite for climbing.

I have owned several packs over the years. Our needs change as we change. I would not recommend that anyone buys just one pack.

I always thought a huge pack (6,500-7,000 c.i.+) pack was usefull for really big trips with base camps etc. I still have my 1983 Gregory Cassin and even use it once in a while, even these days. It was a work horse for me, worked in Alaska, Canadian Rockies and bringing gear to our Sierra projects.

My second pack was climbing specific pack at about 4,000 c.i. max that could be made much smaller for summit push. The Andinista by Wild Things worked great for that. I usually carried about 25-30 Lbs in it, alpine climbing with overnight on a wall. The most I ever carried in it was about 55 lbs coming down from cleaning Camp 4 on Dhaulagiri 1 and I was so unbalanced going through the icefall, I felt totally insecure with the pack swaying on my back.

I also have an old beat up Millet pack (3,500 c.i.) for carrying rock gear to Tahquitz, Joshua Tree.
That pack I would like to replace because these days my trips are shorter, mostly just long day trips or short overnight trips, I have a bad back so I need some support and since we go in all four seasons, sometimes I need a little extra space. So I'm still looking for that 3,000 c.i.+ pack with removable frame, top and harness.

No one pack will ever do it all. Buying wisely is the issue for all of us. So what you might need is not exactly the same as what I'm searching for. Having a pack that fits our activity is the secret.