i've been happy with the Prolite Plus. probably spent 200+ nights on it. i started to use it by itself even in winter a few years back. used it for a month rafting the Grand Canyon and 3 months down in South America recently. i didn't notice a difference in comfort or warmth when adding a Ridgerest. i've always used it over a tent and a ground sheet. definitely a must if you camp in the dessert.

A side comment on the insulating value of a Ridgerest, which I assume is true of all closed cell foam pads - it definitely degrades with time and use. I recently replaced an old one after spending several nights on the same snow campsite. I noticed that I was getting chilly, whereas I normally sleep warm, but the real giveaway was when I took down my tent and noticed that the snow under my pad had melted out significantly, whereas under my buddy's similar (but newer) pad very little. Getting a new one solved the problem.

JHH60 wrote:A side comment on the insulating value of a Ridgerest, which I assume is true of all closed cell foam pads - it definitely degrades with time and use.

True. Mine lasted 15 years before I finally replaced it. Still very cost effective IMNSHO. Call me once burnt and twice shy, but watching parnters not sleep all night due to popped inflatable pads, I will stick with my Evazotte, despite the bulk and relatively low R value.

My two cents.

I think sleeping on an inflatable pad is significantly colder than sleeping on a closed-cell pad.

If I am going to be sleeping on snow then I will definitely use a closed-cell pad.

I have been know to carry both for extreme comfort, inflatable pad for comfort, closed-cell pad for warmth.

Yeah, anecdotally I have found closed cell pads warmer as well, despite R-value claims. Wonder why that is...

I have the cheapest closed cell thermarest pad (~$20). It works way better than the previous expensive ones that I popped. I am never going back. It is warm, lite, and works great as a leg splint...

EB, do you use the 5mm evazote?

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/SleepingPads/PRD~0808-097/zotefoams-evazote-bivy-sleeping-pad.jsp

anything thicker seems too bulky for my uses...

Logsden, I have both the thin and the winter Evazote from the MEC. Have used them since the early 90s. The thin one for summer trips, the other rest of the time. They are (for me) the best pads one can purchase these days. Every Thermarest I ever owned (and I bought and was given a few over the years) sooner or later got a hole in it and deflated in the field. Since I did and still do most of my climbing in the backcountry, usually without a tent, just bivi and a pad and mostly multiday trips, Thermarest was always problematic thing. These MEC pads work in all conditions.

logsden wrote:EB, do you use the 5mm evazote?

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/SleepingPads/PRD~0808-097/zotefoams-evazote-bivy-sleeping-pad.jsp

anything thicker seems too bulky for my uses...

The Evazotte pads I have are the thinnest and the thickest. The thinnest for most things, the thickest for AK.

Here is a photo of my thin, full length Evazotte pad (in grey) strapped to my pack.

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:My two cents.

I think sleeping on an inflatable pad is significantly colder than sleeping on a closed-cell pad.

If I am going to be sleeping on snow then I will definitely use a closed-cell pad.

I have been know to carry both for extreme comfort, inflatable pad for comfort, closed-cell pad for warmth.

Same here. I usually carry a 3/4 thermarest (which I've had for 15 years, no holes) during the summer. In winter, I also carry a full length ridgerest for the added warmth, and because I can use it to sit on outside.

asmrz and EB, thanks for the beta. I've been "planning" on trying out some evazote for years...just never get around to it because honestly I've never had real problems with thermarest inflatables in the back-country. The two or three times I've gotten a hole in the middle of a trip/climb I've found it very simple to repair in the field.

I could just be lucky. But I'm also pretty meticulous about protecting them when I'm out.

That said, there are some climbs where a popped pad WOULD be a very real problem assuming poor conditions for in field repairs. For the price and peace of mind, it's worth trying out.

Thanks again.

I'm really surprised about all the comments on the thermarests popping. I've had one for years and never have had a problem and don't know anybody who has.

Anybody know what the number one cause is? Rocks? Crampons?

matai wrote:I'm really surprised about all the comments on the thermarests popping. I've had one for years and never have had a problem and don't know anybody who has.

Anybody know what the number one cause is? Rocks? Crampons?

Rocks, sticks. It really depends on how you use them. Backpacking with a tent is one thing, but bivis with just a pad and bag on rock will shred an inflatable pad pretty quick. Also, the standard Thermarests have a much better track record than the Neoairs, which, at least in their first production run, were very delicate.

Agree, depends how and where you use them. I use Thermarest exclusively combined with Evazote when tent camping in JTree, Yosemite and such. For that it works great. But problems start with multi-day hiking and climbing in the Sierra, or messing around in the western deserts or being way out in the backcountry with or without a tent. These pads are not bomb-proof and that's the problem. I had Thermarest deflate on me at about 17,000 feet on the North side of Denali below the North Summit when we were 10 days out, tired, in mid May and in very cold conditions. No way to repair it. Swore right there I would never take it on any backcountry trip ever again. The slight increase in comfort while sleeping on the Thermarest is totally compensated by knowing the Evazote will not pop. Maybe it might fly away in a strong wind (It happened to me too, found it far away from our camp in Tibet) but it will not deflate. That's how I see it.

matai wrote:I'm really surprised about all the comments on the thermarests popping. I've had one for years and never have had a problem and don't know anybody who has.

Anybody know what the number one cause is? Rocks? Crampons?

I've had a few Thermarests (or other brands) in the past 30 years, most recently about 2 years ago. Just to see if they've made any improvements.

All of my Thermarests immediately developed holes and won't hold air. I was extremely careful with my last Thermarest, used it only in a tent for car camping. it doesn't hold air.