builttospill wrote:Here's a few thoughts Chief, while we're being "real." I've broken them down into numbered points for you, so see if you can follow along:

1. I think you are too lazy to read and digest arguments longer than a few sentences.

2. I think that you are too stubborn to just keep your mouth shut when you haven't read or understood the entire post.

3. I think that you are too obtuse to realize when someone is not actually arguing against your position.

4. You clearly think that your knowledge is more valuable than anyone else on Summitpost, no matter the other person's experience, knowledge or insights unique from your own.

5. I think that even when it is painfully obvious that your counterpoint is irrelevant, that you have misunderstood the basic argument or context of the argument, or that you have not read the entire post or thought about it for longer than it takes to hit "Post Reply," you even more stubbornly dig your heels until the person you are "arguing" with gives up out of frustration.


You've accomplished all of the above in this single thread, including the last bit of #5, so congratulations.

Why thank you!

Nothing like getting advice and insight on who I really am from an extensively experienced worldly traveled young'n that still aint shaving his entire face and has yet to have all his public hairs sprouted. Lotta "I's" in that post young man. You should stop thinking so much. It is not conducive to an educated adult discussion. Just a very one sided egocentric academia one.... yours.

BTW, the two allegations that you referred to in your previous post only enlightened my obtuseness to the point of ignoring your post completely as neither of them were anywhere near the magnitude that others within JK's article are referring to. Those aren't my observations either. They are indeed those of the Montana State Attorney General who has formerly opened an investigation into the CAI's and GM financial dealings.

Please continue, it is quite entertaining.

Since so many have jumped head-long to support the original allegations from a BS for-profit utter crap organization for the trailer park IQ crowd like 60 Minutes, perhaps we'd like at least to hear first-hand from the accused before hanging him? Just a thought.

http://outsideonline.com/adventure/trav ... 55690.html

ExcitableBoy wrote:Winning an argument on teh internets is like winning the special olympics, but without the dedication, training, and sense of fair play.

That's pretty apropos right about now, esp. for a certain player. . .

dskoon wrote:

ExcitableBoy wrote:Winning an argument on teh internets is like winning the special olympics, but without the dedication, training, and sense of fair play.

That's pretty apropos right about now, esp. for a certain player. . .

sharperblue wrote:Since so many have jumped head-long to support the original allegations from a BS for-profit utter crap organization for the trailer park IQ crowd like 60 Minutes...

Gotta love it. When the chips begin to fall in the opposite direction, there's always the innuendos and personal attacks to revert to.

On topic....

Seems that the seriousness of this issue is beginning to resonate. As I posted, the Montana State Attorney Gen is jumping on the "trailer park IQ" bandwagon and as of this afternoon, is opening a formal investigation into ALL the allegations against CAI and GM. Don't be surprised to read in the next couple of days that the IRS is following suite.


An old tale of solid advice comes to play in this deal... "If it is too good to be true, run! Cuz if you don't, it most likely is and the ensuing firestorm will engulf you!"

This thread has the feel of the old SP and has my stamp of approval. Keep up the good work guys.

You can tell a lot about what's going on the Eastside & the Chief by the frequency of his post. High volume of posts usually indicate the following:
1. Lee Vining ice is on its way out
2. Seasonal jobs are dwindling down
3. Fishing is not that good
4. Spring skiing is in but he doesn't own any skis.
5. Most of the bolts have been replaced in ORG & AH
6. Got kicked out of MP, ST, CC, UR, LD, ID, HD climbing forums.
7. Getting his mojo back by seeing himself post.

The news today of the Mt Attorney Generals office starting an investigation of the CAI is interesting to say the least. The one thing I can say about this is it will be an impartial investigation, and that is all I have been advocating for.
I do not believe in Kangaroo, or Krakauer, or Internet courts, all of which have been on display in this thread.
If it turns out I have defended the honor of a deceitful Greg Mortenson, that will be because I believe in what he stood for. If it turns out he was unable to "walk the walk" [in AA terms Chief], then so be it. Another good man will have fallen to the dark side, and a cynical nation will shrug.
I will continue to believe that altruism is a good thing, and that good men and women can make a huge difference in lives of the less fortunate.

One thing I am intrigued by; Mortenson has had extensive involvement with the military in the past couple of years, I wonder if they could be playing a part in either his alleged degradation of character, or in bringing him down a few pegs...

kevin trieu wrote:This thread has the feel of the old SP and has my stamp of approval. Keep up the good work guys.

You can tell a lot about what's going on the Eastside & the Chief by the frequency of his post. High volume of posts usually indicate the following:
1. Lee Vining ice is on its way out
2. Seasonal jobs are dwindling down
3. Fishing is not that good
4. Spring skiing is in but he doesn't own any skis.
5. Most of the bolts have been replaced in ORG & AH
6. Got kicked out of MP, ST, CC, UR, LD, ID, HD climbing forums.
7. Getting his mojo back by seeing himself post.

Actually, #1, 2 & 5 are valid. As for #4. Own four pairs but the Doc says no to any skiing. The knee, remember.

And, as far as #7, I just got my mojo back by seeing your stellar posting abilities, again.

Keep up the good work trieu.


PS: The fishing is awesome and on my way down to Pine Creek (beginning tomorrow) to start some new projects and assist in three other big ones btw. No one around to bother us either.

Sharpman: I don't think that the DOD gig has anything to do with this. Unless maybe, they too saw the real GM in action and realized that they also were being taken for a ride. Up the wrong road.

As far as the MT Attorney General starting an investigation, what could be illegal? Is it fraud to lie to potential donors? If the non-profit is paying his expenses, is it illegal for Morgenson to profit on the side? Can any lawyers out there answer this? Thanks.

T Sharp wrote:... altruism is a good thing

You shock me with your outlandishly original and intellectually controversial statements, T Sharp!

Mortenson has had extensive involvement with the military in the past couple of years, I wonder if they could be playing a part in either his alleged degradation of character, or in bringing him down a few pegs...

If anything, I expect such connections to save his ass. There will be significant intra-governmental pressure to minimise the fallout from this, as GM/AAI/3COT have been held up by governments, politicians and the military as exemplars. Backing the wrong horse makes them look bad and they will be eager to save face - once they wipe off the egg. I doubt Obama will ask for his $100K back.

This will be eased out of the headlines, GM will be eased out of CAI (already happening) and most of the serious wrongdoing and lies will be explained away with vacuous homilies and tangential statements about peace, children and fate. Or willfully ignored. Much like we see right now on various forums discussing this. There might be some back taxes paid. Wrists will be slapped. I doubt anyone will go to jail.

No one will benefit from the wholesale destruction of GM himself, though he will serve as a warning example for those wanting to do similar things, and will be a wake-up call for many who support such things. Emphasis will be made, with media crews in tow for proof, that a lot of donated money has survived and is being spent where it was meant to be. They will emphasise the positive. Consign the negative to history. We won't see much of GM for a while. There will be stories on the new management structure, their accountability and integrity and how they are putting the past behind them. Any media on GM will be about how he is 'spending time with family' and concentrating on 'getting well'. Sympathy will grow with time, and carefully circulated footage of him with kids and dogs. 'It's about balance' they'll say, and the yoga instructors of Boulder will nod sagely into their blogs.

So long as the CAI exists and upholds its basic, original aims - to build schools in Pakistan/Afghanistan - then a lot of money should still come in and that can be put to good use. Surely GM didn't spend it all on Lear jets and gourmet cheeseburgers? GM aside, they have too much goodwill to waste (I hope). I'd say fewer schools will be built, but it will be made sure that those that are will be well-used and well-supported.

A few years down the track, GM may still have a role in terms of speaking - the media loves a reformed villain, it's all just sensation to them - but CAI will be at pains to show that his hands are out of the cash box. He will be suitably penitent, shyly humble, a victim of his own success, "I found myself on a treacherous path, scared and unsure of myself. I made mistakes, I'm only human", he weeps to Oprah. Hmmm, sounds like a third book.

At least that's the view from the trailer park ...

Damien Gildea wrote:

T Sharp wrote:... altruism is a good thing

You shock me with your outlandishly original and intellectually controversial statements, T Sharp!

Mortenson has had extensive involvement with the military in the past couple of years, I wonder if they could be playing a part in either his alleged degradation of character, or in bringing him down a few pegs...

If anything, I expect such connections to save his ass. There will be significant intra-governmental pressure to minimise the fallout from this, as GM/AAI/3COT have been held up by governments, politicians and the military as exemplars. Backing the wrong horse makes them look bad and they will be eager to save face - once they wipe off the egg. I doubt Obama will ask for his $100K back.

This will be eased out of the headlines, GM will be eased out of CAI (already happening) and most of the serious wrongdoing and lies will be explained away with vacuous homilies and tangential statements about peace, children and fate. Or willfully ignored. Much like we see right now on various forums discussing this. There might be some back taxes paid. Wrists will be slapped. I doubt anyone will go to jail.

No one will benefit from the wholesale destruction of GM himself, though he will serve as a warning example for those wanting to do similar things, and will be a wake-up call for many who support such things. Emphasis will be made, with media crews in tow for proof, that a lot of donated money has survived and is being spent where it was meant to be. They will emphasise the positive. Consign the negative to history. We won't see much of GM for a while. There will be stories on the new management structure, their accountability and integrity and how they are putting the past behind them. Any media on GM will be about how he is 'spending time with family' and concentrating on 'getting well'. Sympathy will grow with time, and carefully circulated footage of him with kids and dogs. 'It's about balance' they'll say, and the yoga instructors of Boulder will nod sagely into their blogs.

So long as the CAI exists and upholds its basic, original aims - to build schools in Pakistan/Afghanistan - then a lot of money should still come in and that can be put to good use. Surely GM didn't spend it all on Lear jets and gourmet cheeseburgers? GM aside, they have too much goodwill to waste (I hope). I'd say fewer schools will be built, but it will be made sure that those that are will be well-used and well-supported.

A few years down the track, GM may still have a role in terms of speaking - the media loves a reformed villain, it's all just sensation to them - but CAI will be at pains to show that his hands are out of the cash box. He will be suitably penitent, shyly humble, a victim of his own success, "I found myself on a treacherous path, scared and unsure of myself. I made mistakes, I'm only human", he weeps to Oprah. Hmmm, sounds like a third book.

At least that's the view from the trailer park ...

WTF dude...roll your eyes at someone else

As I previously posted, the example that I believe any org in this business of service which chooses to operate in that region should follow, is that which Sir E began with this program/trust.

Quiet, simple and very very successful. Not for Sir E. Nope, successful for the people he and the org/trust serves to this day.

Quality.... NOT Quantity.

The Chief wrote:As I previously posted, the example that I believe any org in this business of service which chooses to operate in that region should follow, is that which Sir E began with this program/trust.

Quiet, simple and very very successful. Not for Sir E. Nope, successful for the people he and the org/trust serves to this day.

Quality.... NOT Quantity.

A good suggestion Chief, for those who aren't in need of a creation myth or a personality cult.

Another one, even quieter, that does incredible work on a shoestring, run by people who support themselves through day jobs: http://www.hhnepal.org/

I'm not weighing in on the facts of the Mortenson case, just making an observation on 60 Minutes's style: The show loses a bit of credibilty for because so often the interviewers use leading questions to get the answers they want. I imagine this is a time convenience for the editors, e.g. Q - "It was cold out, right?" A- "Uh, yes."

Instead of, A- "Well, it was in the 40s and that's cold to some people but not to others, and it was kind of damp so that made it seem colder than it would if it was dry," and so forth.

The use of leading questions by skilled practitioners can make well-intentioned honest people sound like black-hearted liars. Again, this is no comment on the facts surrounding GM.

I thought it was interesting that in the story following GM's, 60 Minutes took a look at a college female basketball player who said she was raped by three male basketball players. Was 60 Minutes in their faces at any time? No, not even an effort. The reporter said the three "chose not to comment," and left it at that. Why not approach them with a camera on the sidelines of the various courts where they are now blissfully shooting hoops and ask about their rapist tendencies?

So, my rant on the standards of 60 Minutes.

TOM!

Email or call me... let's get together ASAP and climb!!!!