MichaelRyanSD wrote: As in I can wear it while climbing and in public, for me at least TNF seems to fit the bill between stylish and useful.

There's a theory out there that what it looks like doesn't matter a damn if it does the job. Or, I think it was Mark Twight who said 'No one cares what you look like if you're good at what you do'. Maybe make that 'no one whose opinion matters'.

Try out TSB next time...

Michael, if you are still looking for a -40 bag. I have a Feathered Friends -40 (an older model of the snowgoose) for sale. $450 shipped.

I'll think I might just go with the -20 degree, thanks for the offer though.

Most people I know consider TNF to be gear for wannabees and yuppies who want to look outdoorsy. I never even look at TNF stuff when shopping for something new. Aside from not wanting to be jeered at, I don't think their stuff is good quality. It doesn't come even remotely close to stuff from Rab, Mammut, Marmot, Mountain Hardwear and even Patagucci (I still buy their capilene, sigh).

But yeah, OP, spend as much money as it takes to get the gear you like and feel good about it. I do.

EDIT -- meant to say that if you want a serious sleeping bag for big mountains, look at Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering.

ywardhorner wrote: EDIT -- meant to say that if you want a serious sleeping bag for big mountains, look at Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering.

Yeah, I tried FF and WM sleeping bags, but damn it, I just didn't like the way I looked in them.

MichaelRyanSD wrote: I've been buying almost exclusively TNF stuff. ... for me at least TNF seems to fit the bill between stylish and useful. ... Am I doomed for the rest of my climbing career to spend almost twice as much to satisfy my need for TNF?

It looks like you might be an excellent candidate to be a South Korean gang member.

http://travel.cnn.com/seoul/life/what-north-face-jacket-means-south-korea-032182

Losers and backbreakers
According to a Korean blog post that made the rounds late last month, North Face jacket wearers can be immediately classified according to the type of North Face jacket they wear. This is apparently a common phenomenon in elementary and middle schools in particular, where the jackets are so popular they have been dubbed "the uniform worn over the uniform," or "backbreakers," (thus called for the work put in by parents in order to afford the jackets for their children).

The rankings also specify what type of student should be wearing which specific type of North Face jacket.

At the bottom of the scale is the North Face Nuptse 2, cost ₩250,000 (approximately US$220), which is generally worn by “losers" (찌질이).

Next on the list is the “common” Nuptse 1, worn both by “losers” and “gang members” (일진).

Two categories up is the Dry Loft, ₩470,000. "Losers don't wear the jackets starting from this category because they're afraid of having them swiped by gang members."

At the top, priced at ₩700,000 is the “rare” Himalayan Down Parka, the most expensive model worn by “the boss.”

As laughable as this list may seem, according to some students it simply puts into words what remains unspoken in school halls.

“You can definitely label people according to what North Face jackets they wear,” says Park Jin, 14, who is the class president of his middle school in western Seoul.

“If you wear a really expensive one, then the iljin (gang members) in school come and take it from you.”

In the news
Although the blog post was nationally forwarded, discussed with outrage and amusement, then promptly forgotten in the manner of most issues on the Internet in Korea, the controversy was brought back in the headlines this week when five Busan middle school students went on a North Face jacket rampage, beating four students for their North Face jackets, which they then took from their victims.

“I wanted a North Face jacket,” was the explanation that was given to the Busan police by one of the apprehended students.

We're still not entirely sure why such bland wilderness travel clothing would prompt such devotion and desire, but we're sure it'll come to us eventually.

divnamite wrote:Michael, if you are still looking for a -40 bag. I have a Feathered Friends -40 (an older model of the snowgoose) for sale. $450 shipped.

MichaelRyanSD wrote:I'll think I might just go with the -20 degree, thanks for the offer though.

Just so you know that sleeping bag he is offering you goes for almost $900 new. And FF makes very good gear. Way better than north face ever thought of being.

Also what simonov said +1

Outdoor gear = outdoor gear
and
street clothes = street clothes

As for Denali, oh man, for that mountain how the stuff looks would be the very last of shopping criteria.

Oh man, thats absolutely my first criteria


and ehem cough, splutter..I hate to sat it and whispered in a very low voice but TNF does make some decent stuff.... but man so low on the gear snobbery list. Check out http://www.cham3s.com/list_catalogue.asp for some uber cool gear porn.

Like I said in the original post, even though I hardly care what I look like on the side of a mountain, I need the clothing to be something I would be comfortable wearing on the street. I'm a recent college grad and I'm an E4 in the Army about to be stationed in Anchorage. I don't have the cash for all sorts of clothes.

As far as gear goes, I really don't have a preference, in fact even before this thread I tend to stay away from TNF stuff

MichaelRyanSD wrote:

As far as gear goes, I really don't have a preference, in fact even before this thread I tend to stay away from TNF stuff

That is the opposite of the original post... I recall something about 'cringing.' Anyway, perhaps this indicates that we are getting somewhere.

For dual purpose gear, I understand where you are coming from. I'm a student and can't afford a ton of excess clothing either. But, there are companies that offer better gear at the same prices. You just have to take a little time. One example is Stoic. Stoic is backcountry.com's house brand. Not the best built stuff out there (still on par or better than TNF), but the prices beat TNF with a stick, particularly if you go to steepandcheap.com and get it there. Stoic makes stylish stuff, I think. When traveling I wear it around cities, on rare rainy days in Phoenix I've worn my softshell to school. It's fine. I think that outdoor gear being stylish in the first place is an illusion anyway.

I recommend Outdoor Research. I think they do a great job of making durable, high quality gear (OR Crocodile Gaiters, etc...), and don't have the terribly high prices like Arcteryx. Same style points apply to them as Stoic.

Final note, if you really want to be stylish at school or on the trail, Mountain Hardwear apparently makes kilts. Now you have a new 'stylish' brand to snob over.
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Men%27s-Elkommando%E2%84%A2-Kilt/OM3417,default,pd.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/fashion/2012/03/patagonia_yvon_chouinard_s_company_makes_technical_climbing_gear_how_d_it_catch_on_with_the_rest_of_us_.html

Though Patagonia caters to dirt bags, the company’s success—it will clear more than $500 million in sales this year—has for many years depended on a different kind of customer: the dog walker. The dog walker buys gear designed for the mountains and puts it to use in the canyons of midtown, the office park, the tree-lined streets of suburbia. He may aspire to the dirt-bag lifestyle, or even have lived it in the years before career or children intervened, but now he wears his fleece to keep warm during Spot’s evening constitutional. The dog walker takes comfort in knowing his Super Pluma Jacket is designed for the harshest conditions, but he’ll never rely on its gusseted underarm panels or harness-compatible pockets. He does, however, think those things look cool.

Call me a cynic, but I look at that article and see a total puff piece. I suppose making $90 infant down sweaters caters to their "core constituency"? And I'm sure the catalogs they mail me every month are made from fair-trade, humanely harvested paper. Patagonia makes good stuff, but they also do an amazing job of managing their carefully crafted image.

And really, WTF?

This crap all started back in the seventies when Coca Cola and Camel cigarettes stopped giving away T-Shirts with their logos on the chest and realised that people were stupid enough to pay for the privilege of advertising the products they were buying and wearing.

I'm a stubborn bastard and I've spent half a lifetime trying to avoid wearing wanker brands in the hills. I've never been above about 14k (feet) in my life so I see bugger all point in buying stuff that pretends that I have.

I will confess to having more recently bought stuff from Mountain Designs, but one of the good things is that their logo doesn't leap out and scream at people right in the face especially if you're a bit discreet with your colour selections. I think blue matches my eyes though..................