Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membrane

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jdzaharia

 
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Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membrane

by jdzaharia » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:53 am

To play off another thread http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/want-light-stiff-soled-boots-without-goretex-t62734.html, I'm looking for stiff mountain boots that are uninsulated and non-waterproof. Lightweight, like the other thread, isn't quite as important in this case, but would be a plus. I'm really after a tall boot with a stiff sole, that breathes better than a waterproof boot. The "mountain" part isn't even so important, but I thought SP would be a good place to ask. So far I've found the following options:

Scarpa Fuego https://www.scarpa.com/fuego
Kenetrek Desert Guide http://www.kenetrek.com/KENETREK-DESERT ... KE-420-DG/
White's Smokejumper https://whitesboots.com/product/nfpa-lt ... -vib-sole/

Please suggest more or provide input.

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by ExcitableBoy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:03 pm

Army Navy surplus military desert boot? http://www.militaryclothing.com/us-mili ... 5080675429

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jdzaharia

 
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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by jdzaharia » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:54 pm

I'm not sure the military boots meet the stiff-soled requirement. But, I will look into it. The price is right!

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Jesus Malverde

 
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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by Jesus Malverde » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:03 pm

jdzaharia wrote:I'm really after a tall boot with a stiff sole, that breathes better than a waterproof boot.

JD,
When I hear Mountain Boot I think of a full-shank, crampon-compatible boot. As you may know, most of these boots are not really "tall."
The other way I think of a Mountain Boot is more of a hunting/military patrol boot application.

The tall boot request with a stiff sole (full shank?, crampon compatible?), eliminates a lot of options. When I think of tall boots (>8"), I think military & jump boots. Have you considered the modern German Army (Bundeswehr) combat boot?
I've read a lot of reviews in the last few months and the boots get good reviews. There are some knock offs out there, so look for the originals.
You can get used ones for pretty cheap online as well.

https://www.asmc.com/Clothing/Footwear/ ... ort-p.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-z988LOzJQ

If you are looking for a U.S. made/Berry compliant, U.S. Patriot Tactical's website has some good options for full leather/stiffer sole:

http://uspatriottactical.com/berry-comp ... 20&start=0

Also, here's my plug for Danner boots:
http://www.danner.com/men

They may have a tall non-Goretex boot that may work for you. My experience with Danner is that the soles are not as stiff as a 3/4+ shank boot, but they are VERY comfortable and durable. Good for work and hiking. I had a pair Danner Mountain Light hiking boots that did two resoles and went through 12 years of hell before dying. :)

I know you aren't looking for Gore-tex, but this is a tall, U.S. made boot that ROCKS (soles are not super stiff though)..
I've had a pair of Ft. Lewis "Go Devils" that are still going strong after 20+ years. I really want to kill these boots, so I can justify a new set of boots. Right now, I can't.
Danner Fort Lewis
http://www.danner.com/fort-lewis-10-black-200g.html

Yes, the boot search can be interesting to say the least...
Hopefully others will jump in here.
Best,
JM

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by ExcitableBoy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:06 pm

jdzaharia wrote:I'm not sure the military boots meet the stiff-soled requirement. But, I will look into it. The price is right!

30 years ago my brother had a pair of Vietnam era combat boots, and they had a steel plate in the sole to prevent penetration of sharp objects, not sure of the desert boots have the same feature.

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by jdzaharia » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:25 pm

I think I'm after "full shank", but not really sure how that translates into today's boots, as I don't think most of them actually use a shank. I think most use a midsole, that may be more or less stiff.

Crampon compatibility is not a consideration in this case, although I think two of the ones I've looked into happen to be.

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by Sunny Buns » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:24 pm

If you want non-waterproof boots so they do not make your feet sweat as much, I doubt any all-leather boot is going to help much. At least that is my experience. Even in my open mesh Moab Ventilators, or running shoes, my feet sweat if I'm working hard. It is irritating that you can't buy more boots without Gore-tex. It is not a good product for boots in my opinion - just makes your feet sweat and drives the cost of the boots higher. In my experience Goretex will only breath enough to keep you dry if you are sitting in camp. I prefer Goretex in a rain jacket or rain pants, but I know it's only slightly better than coated nylon or rubber.

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by bserk » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:54 am

have you checked Hanwag boots from Germany? Their trail boots are often available without GTX and the soles are stiff.

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by ExcitableBoy » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:33 am

Sunny Buns wrote:It is irritating that you can't buy more boots without Gore-tex. It is not a good product for boots in my opinion

Can I get an amen? Seems like because manufacturer 'A' uses it, all manufacturers feel they need to include it to compete. In my experience, comparing leather boots with and without Gore-Tex, I see no difference at all in waterproofness.

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by bserk » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:58 pm

ExcitableBoy wrote:
Sunny Buns wrote:It is irritating that you can't buy more boots without Gore-tex. It is not a good product for boots in my opinion

Can I get an amen? Seems like because manufacturer 'A' uses it, all manufacturers feel they need to include it to compete. In my experience, comparing leather boots with and without Gore-Tex, I see no difference at all in waterproofness.

lets agree to disagree here? If I need to break trail for a couple of hours a day through snow leather doesn't last. GTX is the way to go if you expect extended wet conditions.

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jdzaharia

 
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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by jdzaharia » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:43 am

Sunny Buns wrote:If you want non-waterproof boots so they do not make your feet sweat as much, I doubt any all-leather boot is going to help much. At least that is my experience.

Okay. Then suggest an alternative. The Moabs don't meet my stiff sole requirement.

bserk wrote:If I need to break trail for a couple of hours a day through snow leather doesn't last.

Not the use I'm after.

bserk wrote:GTX is the way to go if you would like extended wet conditions on the inside of your boot.

FIFY :D

bserk wrote:have you checked Hanwag boots from Germany? Their trail boots are often available without GTX and the soles are stiff.

Going to check them out. I'm not sure I see any of their Trail boots that meet my requirements, but some of their Trek boots may. Is there a specific model you have experience with?

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by Sunny Buns » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:06 am

lets agree to disagree here? If I need to break trail for a couple of hours a day through snow leather doesn't last. GTX is the way to go if you expect extended wet conditions.


If you use a sno-sealer like Nik-Wax on your leather boots, they'll keep moisture out all day, but no boot can keep moisture from coming from your own sweating feet - except for a vapor barrier sock - but then your feet will be wet and you'll get blisters...............

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Re: Want Stiff-Soled Mountain Boots Without Waterproof Membr

by sealevelmick » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:33 pm

hey there, this is a post i would be interested in hearing more in too but i can comment on the whites specifically as theyre something i know a little about (on my 3rd pair since 2000, well including nicks which are basically the same but whatev and also subbed in some danners, redwings, lowas, etc : ). So i have mainly used these in trail work, so daily use for months on end, and i love them, however they do have a niche application and not sure i would take them hiking but given some considerations to terrain, etc, here goes:
They are heavy as sin, i can put one on the scale if you need but yea. (also, i rock a size 13, but take a 13 or 14 in most running shoes, so thats how they run). That said, could i put on 20 miles days in them?- absolutely. Could i cruise at 3 and a half for a few hours?- for sure. Couldnt necessarily jog in them but, especially for humping big packs that, had i on sneakers, would be trying to bend my foot in half, yea whites are the best. Then again, they take some getting used to. They change your gait. If you are a heel striker, you might have some issues. Annd hella high arches (which i like) but if you have flat feet they will punish you. But yea, the boots themselves take weeks to break in (cant use them straight out of the box) and idk how long but your legs/knees/hips have to adjust too. Rambling on- they are really hard. So if you have to walk pavement for any amount of time forget it. Or even if you plan on doing lots of talus hopping, there are prolly better options. Although, in terms of actual climbing, they arent terrible- they are so stiff that you if can get the last inch of the toe on a lip you can usually push off it. whereas, with 'hiking boots' even sneakers, it seems sometimes like i have balloons on my feet. where conversely the whites were like having a pair of knives on down there. For steep soils and logs and that too they are very fast. Even, this is wierd : ), but after so many miles in them coming down a trail some days it felt like i was walking on a second set of arms lol or like i had some kind of orbital suction cup or something. idk maybe any other boots i wore as much would have felt the same but i think i can say somewhat objectively that the amount of wieght and support they confer would lower your slip rate over time...
uhh, lets see, as for breathability, yea tops. i wore them down in the deserts of southern california for a few summers, no problems whatsoever, i mean it, really it was hot, this is east of los angeles by about 3 hours in july/aug/sept no shade, all day. no issues. ive even pulled 10 mile hiking days in them without socks without issue when laundry day kinda snuck up on me, so they do really well in the heat. And theyre pretty dependable, once they are broken in, you know youre not going to have to worry about them, they are like the toyota corrolla of boots, haha, hope this isnt turning into a shameless plug!
and the i guess as far as cost and maintainence- i think my last pair were around 450 or so. And i end up putting new heels on every year or so (~$50), and then send them in for the complete rebuild (~300) like every 3 or 4. And then finally they for sure need to be oiled twice a year, so a can of huberds is like 10 bucks.
but yea, now that, this year, im not wearing them on a daily basis, im a little reluctant to take them out backpacking, just bc the adjustment period would be like the length of the trip, so am aslo in the market for an alternative and would like to see this thread progress.


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