It's not a puffy, if that's what you mean. It's slightly loftier than a Patagonia Down Sweater.

I don't wear anything near that warm when climbing in -20C weather (wool, Capilene, Fleece, shell) and I wear something much warmer over it all (Rab Neutrino Endurance) for blaying when it's below 0C. Do you wear down when moving? Or do you not like your big jacket even for belaying?

I looked up your jacket - it looks very similar to my Rab, so I can't imagine it's too big for belaying. If you want more warmth on the move, I'd choose thicker fleece or a synthetic - I have used a Compressor as a mid layer when it's super-cold and I am not moving as much, but I find fleece is worth the weight becuase it breathes much better.

I don't own a light down jacket because they seem to vulnerable over my shell when moving, and too likely to make me sweat and get the down damp under the shell. If I was
doing something in a moderate, dry climate where I didn't need a big belay jacket I'd get the flash or Rab Microlight in a heartbeat. For the NE I don't see the point.

We keep posting at the same time - maybe you just need to size down if it's too bulky at belay. You really need a decent amount of loft to stay warm in our temperatures, and I know I'd never take a puffy with less than about 10oz of down on a winter trip. You might be comfortable with a Flash at a belay in nice weather, but what about unexpected winds, or an unplanned bivy?

Unless you are just taking about crags in decent weather, not alpine use - I use my Compressor for that, but I think I'd prefer a MicroPuff.

Anita, I climb in the NE US and don't think Patagonia down sweater is warm enough as a belay jacket for winter climbing. It's a good belay jacket for summer/fall/spring rock climbing and a good pile layer for inbound skiing on those below zero days. Your Kobuk is probably fine, you just need a smaller size and I've also seen people carrying their belay jackets in compression sacks on a biner hooked to the harness - try that.

anita wrote:do you think it's warm enough for ice climbing in the northeast/northern quebec?
I have a big nunatak kobuk, but it's really bulky and I'm always afraid of nicking it... so I'm looking for something a bit closer fitting, but still warm and water resistant.

I like the patagonia hooded down sweater, but no one carries patagonia up here..

Off topic I suppose but Anita, where bouts are you in northern Quebec? I thought I was litterally the only one climbing around here. I'm up in Schefferville! Patagonia is carried in several Quebec stores that also sell online, you just need to know which ones are the good ones.
www.mec.ca
www.lacordee.com
www.monodsports.com (In Alberta, not in Quebec, but shipping is super fast to get up here)
www.backcountry.com also ships their Patagonia line to Canada (only US retailer I've found that does this... not sure why.

On another note, for us Canadians, it's ridiculous trying to find a full line of Patagonia offered anywhere that can be shipped into Canada. I've had a little luck over the last few years I suppose but it's still real hard to find consistency.

For the DAS parka, go to Backcountry.com 300$ us + custom and duties may be a wee bit, but it's not THAT bad. Or, if you have a friend in the US, ship it to them and have them ship it up, and you'll avoid the huge taxes on it.

anita wrote:hit submit before I was done:

I usually just go to the mountaineer and try stuff on and then buy online wherever I can find the best price.

Why don't you ask mountaineer to price match? I'm sure they will give you a good deal.

And I wouldn't say Monodsports is THAT overpriced, for some items they seem to literally be the only online retailer that carries certain things, but if you're used to shopping on online sites, most US based retailers have lower prices to begin with even after currency exchange rate + duties/taxes. For things in Canada, Monodsports.com isn't too far off, but there just aren't many Canadian based online retailers in the outdoor industry to begin with, and that's the major problem.

Most products if available in US and Canada, the Canadian price will be much higher... I say Most, not all...