Ya'll are thinking faaaaaaaaaaaaar toooooooooooo much!

I say STFU and go climb something would ya.

I am out the door to do just that..... Ha Ha Ha Ha.

FORT...

My Boss's all know my life revolves around my climbing. They even ask me what days I need off to go climb ice.

That is one reason they hired me (along with my military career) and two other gents that have been there for over 20 years....

Commitment, Perseverance and Focus.

So again, I say STFU, go push yourself and climb something hard today.




Stop worrying about the who, what, where and why of it all.....

I think it's the middle age knocking...my view of time & life has changed a lot lately. Maybe it's age, maybe it's those 2 fucking miserable hours of mental boredom each day that is bike commuting, esp thru. the dark misery of winter months. Lots of time to think. I now realize that the time before you were born is like being in a dark box. Then life begins & they let you out of the box for a short while. You do what you can. Make choices, fuck up, try your best. Then it's over & time to go back into that dark box again...forever. Do what you enjoy I guess. Don't mess things up for others. It'll be over shortly. Cheers.

I've given up sitting on the couch watching TV, getting fat, and eating junk food. Not a bad trade off in my eyes. Now my kids are starting to show interest and that makes it even better. Now if I could find a way to give up work and climb more that would be way better.

Fort - no way man! If anything, this view fortifies my desire to stay on the boat/out of the box as long as possible eh

welle wrote:

zodis wrote:It's a hobby.

respectfully disagree. knitting is a hobby.

My only complaint about people in the climbing community is that they are not as multi-faceted and multi-dimensional. I'm only talking about the people that I have known, so not trying to generalize. But my experience has shown me that some of the most accomplished climbers are made dreary and downtrodden by their jobs which they view solely as a means of buying their freedom, aka buying time for the outdoors. Which is fine, but they have no passion for career undertakings that may involve creative pursuits and creative passions. I'm sure there are the lucky few out there that have managed to make a living doing what they love.

There also tends to be a shortage of intellectual circuits in climber's brains-they don't really engage in the philosophies and literatures, etc. I've experienced a disappointment in the lack of intellectual engagement within the community and my outdoor partners. There's a lot of free time out there in the outdoors for the mind to roam and filling the time with lets say--fascinating, more abstract discussions--instead of discussing the virtues of sarah palin or gossiping about others feverishly--is hard to come by.

Also, unfortunately the overall ultimate outdoor adventurist is a rare breed, someone who does a great variety of adventures-mountains, ocean, rock, canyons, etc. etc. There are a lot of ways to explore our world.

Lastly, I am an aspiring fashion designer as well as an extremely ambitious and aggressive outdoor enthusiast-one of my designs actually will involve knitted fragments, so lets try to live less in a male dominated perspective, shall we and stfu?

For many on this site and others I notice that various climbing disciplines appear to involve much drama and sacrifice. For me, climbing is simply a lifestyle. I embrace the outdoor life, it embraces me. For me the risk of injury, dying or what others might think of my selfish pursuit is no greater than if I were an accountant eating bonbons on the weekend.

The only "net" risk involved with climbing in my quite focused small world is the risk of placing so much personal worth on my physical well being. I have a herniated disk in my neck at the moment and while I wait for the anti inflammatory drugs to reduce the swelling and thus get back to the task at hand, my poor wife and dog suffer my full time aggravated presence. Now there is true sacrifice! You folks think I am a hard mean old man in the field, one can only imagine what happens to my lovely personality when confined to the indoors.

Daria wrote:My only complaint about people in the climbing community is that they are not as multi-faceted and multi-dimensional. I'm only talking about the people that I have known, so not trying to generalize. But my experience has shown me that some of the most accomplished climbers are made dreary and downtrodden by their jobs which they view solely as a means of buying their freedom, aka buying time for the outdoors. Which is fine, but they have no passion for career undertakings that may involve creative pursuits and creative passions. I'm sure there are the lucky few out there that have managed to make a living doing what they love.

There also tends to be a shortage of intellectual circuits in climber's brains-they don't really engage in the philosophies and literatures, etc. I've experienced a disappointment in the lack of intellectual engagement within the community and my outdoor partners. There's a lot of free time out there in the outdoors for the mind to roam and filling the time with lets say--fascinating, more abstract discussions--instead of discussing the virtues of sarah palin or gossiping about others feverishly--is hard to come by.

Sorry to hear that. I've met people climbing who would probably not fit within these stereotypes.

For example, I met a good friend while ice climbing with some summitposters about six years ago. He is married, has a demanding job, plays soccer, skis, and has an advanced degree in physics, among other things. When I'm lucky enough to go climbing with him he passes time on the drive by discussing things which truly make you feel like a small part of a huge universe.

It took a serious injury and nearly the end of life as I knew it to discover who my true friends were, and how deep the well of kindness these people possess.

I hope your travels someday bring you into contact with people whom you actually admire

Daria wrote:

welle wrote:

zodis wrote:It's a hobby.

respectfully disagree. knitting is a hobby.

...Lastly, I am an aspiring fashion designer as well as an extremely ambitious and aggressive outdoor enthusiast-one of my designs actually will involve knitted fragments, so lets try to live less in a male dominated perspective, shall we and stfu?

I doubt welle is guilty of having a male dominated perspective.

anita wrote:hey Dow, is that for La Sportivas "Hunks of Climbing" 2011 calendar?

Dudette, you know it is....you can tell I had busted my az working on my fall tan.

Daria wrote:
There also tends to be a shortage of intellectual circuits in climber's brains-they don't really engage in the philosophies and literatures, etc. I've experienced a disappointment in the lack of intellectual engagement within the community and my outdoor partners. There's a lot of free time out there in the outdoors for the mind to roam and filling the time with lets say--fascinating, more abstract discussions--...

God forbid we are ever alone with our thoughts!

Give it a rest! Still waters run deep. Don't assume that just because someone isn't yapping away, that person is intellectually inferior.

Philosophy is the systematic abuse of a terminology designed for that very purpose. (Attributed in paraphrasis to many authors.)

borutb wrote:Nice topic mvs!
BTW, tell me when you'll be coming to visit Triglav.

I read the whole thread slowly and with great interest.
Thanks to everyone.

my 2 cts are that this whole issue might be a variation of the joke about the old climber and the good climber

Thanks Borut! I have to agree, it was a good thread. It was a good point about viewing your job as a completely mundane thing just so you can get out. Sometimes I've felt that way but now I find work (mostly) fun.

I'd like to come for Triglav in the summer, maybe bring a friend. Crossing my fingers!

Daria wrote:My only complaint about people in the climbing community is that they are not as multi-faceted and multi-dimensional. I'm only talking about the people that I have known, so not trying to generalize. But my experience has shown me that some of the most accomplished climbers are made dreary and downtrodden by their jobs which they view solely as a means of buying their freedom, aka buying time for the outdoors. Which is fine, but they have no passion for career undertakings that may involve creative pursuits and creative passions. I'm sure there are the lucky few out there that have managed to make a living doing what they love.

There also tends to be a shortage of intellectual circuits in climber's brains-they don't really engage in the philosophies and literatures, etc. I've experienced a disappointment in the lack of intellectual engagement within the community and my outdoor partners. There's a lot of free time out there in the outdoors for the mind to roam and filling the time with lets say--fascinating, more abstract discussions--instead of discussing the virtues of sarah palin or gossiping about others feverishly--is hard to come by.

Also, unfortunately the overall ultimate outdoor adventurist is a rare breed, someone who does a great variety of adventures-mountains, ocean, rock, canyons, etc. etc. There are a lot of ways to explore our world.

Lastly, I am an aspiring fashion designer as well as an extremely ambitious and aggressive outdoor enthusiast-one of my designs actually will involve knitted fragments, so lets try to live less in a male dominated perspective, shall we and stfu?

Ok, I'll forgive you for your young age for the fervor in your speech, even you have insulted quite a few climbers and non-climbers here. I'm also blaming your age for not being fortunate enough to meet better-rounded individuals who are climbers. And like Moapa said, not everyone is yapping away their thoughts. To me, climbing even with a partner is a very individual and the same time shared experience. Nothing I enjoy more than being alone with my thoughts on a belay ledge, while at the same time having that invisible connection to my partner. And why are you looking down on people who choose non-creative pursuits for their career?

FYI, I also knit and find it rewarding and soothing, but I don't find it as thought-consuming as climbing. And if you think knitting is only for women, you are hopelessly stuck in pre-1960s.

Lastly, for someone who describes themselves as an aggressive outdoor enthusiast climbing is most likely a hobby, just one of many thrill-seeking pursuits. Climbing most people are discussing in this thread is something a little bit beyond your garden variety hobby.

I'm merely trying to point out that a lot of people fall into stereotypes....ex. males and their choice for careers, topics of choice for discussion, patterns of thought (systematic, methodological, western ideology of rationality, etc.) yawn. It is one of the main reasons I did not pursue a graduate degree in Philosophy because I realized it is all a fraud and I was being trained to perform according to the structures and inner workings of the male mind and male logic.

Steve1215 wrote:
Most of my climbing partners have advanced degrees in mathematics, physics, and engineering

My point exactly.

welle wrote: you have insulted quite a few climbers and non-climbers here.

Sorry, but I have this natural condition called "Iwanttospeakmymind". I am not necessarily right, you are not necessarily right. It's called raising questions, and discussion.

welle wrote:Lastly, for someone who describes themselves as an aggressive outdoor enthusiast climbing is most likely a hobby, just one of many thrill-seeking pursuits. Climbing most people are discussing in this thread is something a little bit beyond your garden variety hobby.

I fully understand the intent of this thread. I don't view climbing as a hobby in my own personal life, but a lifestyle and full blown commitment. And I am one of the most reclusive, and quiet individuals there ever existed, fyi.

welle wrote:
FYI, I also knit and find it rewarding and soothing, but I don't find it as thought-consuming as climbing.

Then you must have not engaged in much fashion design-because design and technical construction is one of the most single demanding and thought-consuming processes I have encountered. Artistic production itself is extremely rigorous on the mind-it is the equivalence of building a new language from raw scratch materials.
I could write a 20,000 page paper on the silent immersion and thought-demands of the outdoor experience, and I am writing a sci-fi book regarding this psychological aspect of human experience. So I am not trying to downplay either one, but encourage variety and openmindednes!

And here's a news flash-we live in a homophobic society still, rugged outdoors men DONT knit or think about their outfits! LOL

The Vikings (I think it was the Vikings) used to forbid women to knit as it was considered a male-only pursuit. I'm guessing that this maybe came from the idea that making fishing nets was also a men-only activity.

Daria wrote:And here's a news flash-we live in a homophobic society still, rugged outdoors men DONT knit or think about their outfits! LOL

http://www.aadl.org/node/33199
Maybe not "outdoor" men, but few would have called Rosey Grier a sissy (at least to his face).

I used to sew quite a lot-- outdoor gear and my outdoor clothes. I wasn't concerned with fashion, though.