I use the Black Diamond Sabretooth clip crampon. And I love them! The clip version is the kind you get if your boot doesn't have a front toe welt. They have served me well through my ice climbing experience, and a little mountaineering. As far as the bindings go: If your boots are compatible, then get the step in! If you don't have a toe welt, then buy the hybrid. Both will hold onto your boot just fine, the step in just holds on a little tighter.

Full auto, all the way - if they fit your boots well. Try them first and make sure they don't slop.

KristoriaBlack wrote:On the other hand with the step-ins you can adjust the length of the front-points for different terrain.

For me, the more important thing is the position of the secondary points relative to the front of the boot. On steeper ice the secondary points offer support as you drop your heel. I like to be able to position the secondary points so they are just behind the front of the toe. The further back the secondary points, the further you have to drop your heels and more tired your calves get. This position can't be adjusted at all with newmatic / clip bindings.

KristoriaBlack wrote:On the other hand with the step-ins you can adjust the length of the front-points for different terrain.

No actually you can't do that with most of crampons. Maybe there is an exotic model that allows such adjustment, not sure.

Generally, I think that a step-in crampon is a bit more rigid compared to a combo but obvuously you need a boot with a front welt and therefore you can't use those superlight boots like LaSportiva Trango S with a step-in crampon. BTW, your sabertooths are good for very steep ice, certainly grade 5. They have good secondary points.

3rd pair of crampons!I would think your Sabretooth would be fine unless your doing some pretty extreme climbing. I personally like the step in binding and use them for everything. Sure their not ideal for some uses as walking on only semi steep slopes, or while on snow slogs, but I make it work! (it works with with my budget too only having one pair)

My life savors

bdynkin wrote:

KristoriaBlack wrote:On the other hand with the step-ins you can adjust the length of the front-points for different terrain.

No actually you can't do that with most of crampons. Maybe there is an exotic model that allows such adjustment, not sure.

Generally, I think that a step-in crampon is a bit more rigid compared to a combo but obvuously you need a boot with a front welt and therefore you can't use those superlight boots like LaSportiva Trango S with a step-in crampon. BTW, your sabertooths are good for very steep ice, certainly grade 5. They have good secondary points.

In fact the G14 crampomatic (step in) crampons have two different pairs of holes for the toe bail. I believe this is true on some other crampon brands as well. While this doesn't allow continuous adjustment of the length of the front points, it does allow some adjustment of the amount that they protrude beyond the toe of the boot.

When people talk about rigid vs. flexible crampons they are usually talking about whether they have a rigid frame (like the Rambos, which are completely rigid) vs. bend somewhat in the middle (like both the G12 and G14, which are semi-rigid). Hybrid vs. step-in bindings can affect how tightly the crampon is bound to the boot at the toe but not its rigidity.

Most step-in crampons these days have two or three sets of holes for the toebails (the old Rambo Comps had four), allowing the front and secondary points to be moved forward and backward relative to the boot toe.

Petzl M10's, Cassin C14's, and Camp Vectors also allow you to move the front points forward without changing the secondary point position. You can also set some of these up as "offset monopoints" (where one of the points is longer than the other), sort of like the Grivel Rambo 4.

Another adjustment you can sometimes make with step-ins is offsetting the toebail itself -- eg. left side goes in first hole, while the right side goes in the second, and other such stuff. This can help fitting some boots. Endless hours of entertainment are possible this way

The Grivel Cramp-O-Matic binding is very good. The front metal tab increases security and putting on or taking off the crampons does not take appreciably more time than with New-Matic bindings or recent strap-ons. Apart from the ability to adjust the toe bail, step-in bindings in general minimize vibration and other losses when you kick the ice. This improves the ability of the front points to penetrate.

I use these, and they rock it on the ice:



Full auto on the bindings. No reason not to.


Black Diamond Cyborgs


My other pair of crampons (note* you should only need 2 pairs!) are the BD Contacts with simple straps on both ends.
These come in handy where a rock climb must be reached after crossing a glacier or snowfield (Tetons, Enchantments, Palisades) and easily stay glued on to an approach shoe.





***Edit for a shameless picture plug

KristoriaBlack wrote:What can I say: some people like shoes. I like crampons.

I'm kinda the same way not as bad as I used to be though.

Regarding damaging the frontpoints on your sabretooths -- don't worry about it. I don't know how the stainless version holds up on rock, but the older chromoly steel models are pretty sturdy. Sure, you may have to sharpen them occasionally. They work great for ice climbing too, at least if you adjust them so the secondary points give adequate support, and some people use them for mixed as well. The flat chisel shape of the frontpoints allows you get more metal on the rock, kind of like smearing with rock shoes. Play around on toprope and see what you like.

During ice season it's pretty easy to sell lightly-used crampons on ebay for decent prices .. it's like peddling heroin to addicts

Aaron, next you "need" a pair of aluminum crampons for approaches to alpine rock climbs

My wep of choice for the past eight years or so.....


AND these....

KristoriaBlack wrote:Thank you so much, these are excellent responses.

I've decided on getting the step ins. I like the idea of tinkering with the toe bails and heal position.

Can I really climb New England/Ontario ice with my sabretooths? Won't I damage the front points?

I'm thinking of the G14s because I want something with verticle front points that can be converted to monopoints. I want to try my hand at mixed climbing and/or dry tooling. I can get out pretty much every weekend with our local Alpine Club so I don't mind paying for proper climbing crampons as I will be using them often.

I think I'm pretty set on getting the G14s... I've been thinking about them for a month now. What can I say: some people like shoes. I like crampons. (I admit, the Sabretooths were an impulse buy. )

Sabertooth Pro is probably the best all around crampon for New England ice, unless you're looking to climb hard mixed routes with lots of bare rock. I spent a lot of time climbing in Sabertooths and only felt them holding me back on real thin/narrow late and early season ice. Even pure vertical Grade 5 ice is no problem with the ST's. I only picked up a pair of Cyborgs because I wanted to run a monopoint for fooling around on some harder mixed stuff. For anything on Mt. Washington, I take my Sabertooths. Same for Smuggler's Notch and most of the Daks. The Cyborgs come out for harder mixed routes on Poko, the bolted stuff above the Catskill gullies, etc.

Yep, those are the sabretooths. They don't "really, really suck", and I can't imagine the stainless steel model is that much different from the old black chromoly version when it comes down to it.

Your footwork just needs a tune-up. Next time you go out ice climbing, take a couple laps on a WI3 with one tool, and then with no tools. Remember to keep your heels down.

I do love those Grivel frontpoints though .. makes penetration a little easier. Who needs better technique when you can just buy better gear ?

the passionate ice climber friends I climb ice with all use by the mono front points and love them

rhyang wrote: Who needs better technique when you can just buy better gear ?

The Best, not better.... nuff said!