As has been alluded to above, black bears don't have opposable thumbs. So coins and screwdrivers are going to be a little hard for them to operate

Bears in some areas have figured out how to defeat hanging, whether it's the PCT method or counterbalancing. Not sure about the ADK's, but definitely in some areas of the Sierra Nevada.

Some bear canisters that have never been compromised:

- Garcia (heavy)
- Bearikade (expensive, but light)
- Bare Boxer (contender model is nice for short solo trips)

These use coin/screwdriver locking mechanisms, unlike the Bear Vault.

Hanging a bear canister is a pretty silly idea.

Before the mid 70s, bears rarely attacked hanging food in the Adirondacks, even in the High Peaks. After that, most people tried to use the "suspend between two trees" method, which some bears defeated. If alone, I would look for an overhung, slippery silver birch and use a single-rope method; unfortunately this isn't good for the tree if the bear actually tries to climb it. Often I depended on "there are some campers down there who are not hanging food at all, and the bear will go there first."

Hanging food between two trees, and getting it high enough, is a real pain, especially if you are solo. Bears learn quickly, and recognize hanging stuff sacks as desirable targets, like pinatas. They don't want to waste much time on a bear barrel.

If you come into a campsite late in the afternoon in a heavy rain, you will appreciate just putting the barrel out, and not climbing wet trees.

Put EVERYTHING that vaguely smells like food in the barrel -- toothpaste, soap, scented sunscreen, and especially used mountain-house-type dinners.

Autoxfil wrote:

maddie77777 wrote:LOL, great. Ok, so I guess bear canisters are out for my trip. Thanks for that, though. I was just looking at them at REI getting ready to drop the $80. Would it be too redundant to buy a bear canister and still hang it b/w 2 trees? I don't think so...

The theory of operation is that they are too big and slippery for a bear to get it in their mouth or paw. So, they bat it around for a while and then give up.

MoapaPk wrote:the bears play soccer with the canisters

They're not kidding, maddie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMoIbMogg-Q These particular bears aren't that motivated, but you get the idea.

I've used the BearVaults a couple times and the Counter Assault once, all of them REI rentals. I found the BVs are easier to pack, but in the mornings, when tops were dewey, it was tough to get a grip, but not a big deal. The CA is heavy but really durable (good for a rental can). The shape makes it a little harder to pack well, but it's bright yellow all over, making it way easier to spot.

I like the fluorescent orange top in the udap video. You can't just put fluorescent tape on the can, because that might give the bear some purchase.

Unfortunately, in the deep woods of the Adirondacks it will be a little harder to see a played-with black canister, than above timberline in the Sierra. I wish Garcia et al. would start offering them all in fluorescent plastic.

I think I may go with Rhyang's 3rd option, the Bare Boxer. It's cheap and seems big enough to house a couple meals for a couple days. I could just flourescent-tape that thing as well, right, since it's coin/screwdriver operated?

The next question is "what are the odds I totally forget to bring some sort of coin/screwdriver with me?"

I may be joining the bears in going after hanging food caches....or looking for the BearVault models, lol.

maddie77777 wrote:The next question is "what are the odds I totally forget to bring some sort of coin/screwdriver with me?"

When I rented the CA Bear Keg, we used a paint can opener on a piece of cord. Not to pry it open, of course, but as sort of a sideways screwdriver. Also, it's less likely to poke a hole in something in your pack due to the bent-down tip.

EDIT: Also, they're easily available at any hardware store (and some bigger supermarkets) for cents, and... bottle opener!

maddie77777 wrote:I think I may go with Rhyang's 3rd option, the Bare Boxer. It's cheap and seems big enough to house a couple meals for a couple days. I could just flourescent-tape that thing as well, right, since it's coin/screwdriver operated?

The next question is "what are the odds I totally forget to bring some sort of coin/screwdriver with me?"

Usually house or car keys have a thin-enough projection to work; try it first, and don't risk screwing up your keys. A file blade on a small swiss-army knife may be good enough. I bet I could open a Garcia-type with my thin Ti spork (of course, if it were stored in the can...).

Once again, some say that you shouldn't put anything on the curved sides of the barrel that will make it less slippery.

maddie77777 wrote:I think I may go with Rhyang's 3rd option, the Bare Boxer. It's cheap and seems big enough to house a couple meals for a couple days. I could just flourescent-tape that thing as well, right, since it's coin/screwdriver operated?

The next question is "what are the odds I totally forget to bring some sort of coin/screwdriver with me?"

If you do get a bareboxer, a coin won't work. When I go backpacking (or climbing) I always have one of those little swiss army knives with a nail file. The tip of the nail file seems to work just fine, but practice at home first with whatever you plan on bringing on your trip.

For the coin-style locking devices (ie. my bearikade) I just have a coin I drilled a hole into, and put one of those little keychain rings on (an austrian pfennig, just in case any US secret service agents are reading this ) This makes it easy to clip onto a key ring or something.

If you're like me, you have lots of random stickers lying around (what online retailer doesn't send stickers in the box anymore ?) I just put a couple of those on my canisters. This also helps with identification, in case you go on trips with someone who has an identical model of canister.

Hanging is not permitted in certain parts of the ADK park (except in cold seasons when bears are less active); you need to bring a canister, or rent one at the Loj or at Lake George.

http://www.adk.org/trails/High_Peaks_Hi ... aspx#Bears

maddie77777 wrote:If I buy a bear canister, do I just keep it in my tent with me?

Yes.

Better yet, put it next to someone else's tent and then watch from a distance with a camera.

LOL, I like your idea Alpinist.

I don't guess placing it somewhere and then peeing a circle around it will deter them at all, will it? I realize that may be the world's 2nd-dumbest bear canister question...............Being at the top of the food chain, it probably wouldn't bother them too much, although it works against some other predators.

In case I miss, I'll just keep it in my wife's pack.

I once dumped my pee bottle in a circle around my tent and when I got back there were marmots all over, but my tent and all the food inside were un-touched.

So, it's worth a shot. Just try not to pee on the bear canister. Sanitation and all, you know.

Alpinist wrote:Better yet, put it next to someone else's tent and then watch from a distance with a camera.

If you are near John's Brook area and you all put the canisters 200' away from you, you'll probably end up next to someone else's canister, and s/he next to yours.

I wouldn't put a canister 200' into the deep Adirondack woods, because I'd never find it again.

Maybe I should take a note from the squirrel's lifestyle......I'll buy several canisters each with a little bit of food in them.