First, let me say that this page is excellent; a great idea and I'm sure it will be very useful. However, it is a sad commentary on the state of knowledge of English grammar and spelling that you had to include an extensive list of very basic rules of English usage that are routinely violated on SP pages and forums. Granted the English language has weird rules and all of that, but I am glad to see that this site hasn't abandoned all hope of encouraging members to learn correct usage. I often read the pages of members whose primary language is not English and am generally impressed with their command of what is to them a foreign language. We have no excuse for being outdone in written use of our own language.
Thank you sir! This page is for those that truly want to do a better job contributing to SP. There will always be those that don't give a hoot, and that's fine. But hopefully our efforts will result in some at least marginal improvement in SP's content quality. We don't expect perfection, because as you say, the English language is indeed weird, but the extra effort is appreciated. Thanks for stopping by and offering your support.
No prob. I only noticed one of them, so you must have found it. Incidentally, thanks for putting this together. It's amazing to me that in the age of spell check and grammar check that people err so often expressing themselves on the internet.
I hope that those who most need to read this do just that! These things just seem so common sense that it's funny people have to be told. One thing I have a problem with is when people don't even use capital letters in the name of their beloved mountain - some times even in the titles of their pages! Or there's always that new trend... spelling "lose" as "loose." I can't figure that one for the life of me. I never saw that until a few years ago and now a lot of people have jumped on that bandwagon. I hope that people who don't take the time to proofread their own pages have a look at this. Nice work!
Les
PS - I also think SP should start reviewing any pages that have fallen below some threshold - maybe 20%? Some have been sitting there for years from the looks of it.
Aaron Johnson - Nov 10, 2007 10:16 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Great idea for a page.
Hi Les. These things should be common sense to most English speaking folks, but that's not the case, and there are many reasons. Background, how they were raised, education, environment, multilingual influences and many other factors can have an influence. I've found most folks write well enough to be understood and that's it. Then of course you have the rebels, who won't learn it for many selfish reasons, or actually know how to write well but refuse to do so for whatever reasons. We certainly have all types here at SP.
Some folks will rebel and ignore this page and continue to be bad writers. There's nothing we can do about it. Others will embrace this page, and those are the ones we hope to assist, and those are the ones that will help make SP better.
I'll include the "lose" and "loose" thing.
Proofreading is easier now with grammar and spellcheck functions on our computers, yet folks fail to look after themselves when submitting stuff. Hopefully for those that want to do better, this resource will help them.
SP automatically detaches pages and makes them invisible when they fall below a certain percentage, although that percentage is reall, really low. When SP was smaller, a culling of neglected pages by the staff was not an unreasonable exercise, but today, it would be a considerable time consuming chore. One possibility would be to raise the threshhold, but I would be against that, as each page needs to be handled on a case by case basis. Each page will have exceptions, circumstances and contributions from other members to be considered. So currently, when a page is in bad shape, the staff will transfer it to someone willing to make it better, or eventually it's deleted once we can figure out what to do with the content, namely photos. Otherwise, the page either remains invisible or ignored. It's the nature of the beast!
Thanks for taking the time to stop by and comment and offer your support.
It is difficult to tell whether pedantry begins with the serve or the volley, but the list of irregular verbs has some archaisms of commission and omission.
"Durst?" "Abode" as past tense? "Shore" but no "shorn?"
I cannot remember anyone saying "chid" in written or spoken English, but I have heard "chided" lots of times. "Pled" seems to be rapidly edging out "pleaded" even among lawyers.
I think some of the above examples are more likely to add confusion than to add clarity.
However, I will try to be less sloppy, and less telegraphic, but sometimes I will be tired or short of time, or both.
What I really need is a failsafe way to deal with parentheses or quotes, or both, at the end of a clause or sentence. Never looks right. (Fragment acceptable in colloquial English.)
Hi Don. This page is going to be what each member wants it to be. We do not expect perfection, nor will we be checking on everyone's style and correctness. This page is hopefully a tool to help folks become better writers on SP. For those that choose to ignore it, well, there's nothing we can do about that, and it's up to them to decide what they'll use the page for, if at all. In the end, it's up to you, the contributor.
I know what you mean about parentheses and quotes. I'm wrestling with that issue all the time. I'm trying to get away from the parentheses whenever I can. I usually default to putting quotes at the end of a line, or after a comma, because that's the way I've seen it done the most in books.
Bottom line is you enjoy your time on SP, and if that means referring to this page now and then for whatever reason, that's great. Thanks for stopping by and commenting. Have fun with SP!
1 I've attached a child page on some grammatical problems (aimed at non-US/UK SP'ers).
2 I'd add "chamoises" to the incorrect plurals.
3 And "accomodation" to the commonly misspelled words.
Vid Pogachnik - Nov 9, 2007 12:51 pm - Voted 10/10
Wrong linkThanks for including my page on the list - High Dynamic Range Imaging. However the link is wrong.
Aaron Johnson - Nov 9, 2007 1:22 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Wrong linkOops! Got it, Vid. Thanks!
Augie Medina - Nov 9, 2007 1:34 pm - Voted 10/10
Grammar & Spelling-Sad CommentaryFirst, let me say that this page is excellent; a great idea and I'm sure it will be very useful. However, it is a sad commentary on the state of knowledge of English grammar and spelling that you had to include an extensive list of very basic rules of English usage that are routinely violated on SP pages and forums. Granted the English language has weird rules and all of that, but I am glad to see that this site hasn't abandoned all hope of encouraging members to learn correct usage. I often read the pages of members whose primary language is not English and am generally impressed with their command of what is to them a foreign language. We have no excuse for being outdone in written use of our own language.
Augie Medina
Ed F - Nov 9, 2007 2:20 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Grammar & Spelling-Sad CommentaryAmen.
Also, Aaron - It's 'apostrophe' not 'apostrophy.'
Aaron Johnson - Nov 9, 2007 3:50 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Grammar & Spelling-Sad CommentaryThank you sir! This page is for those that truly want to do a better job contributing to SP. There will always be those that don't give a hoot, and that's fine. But hopefully our efforts will result in some at least marginal improvement in SP's content quality. We don't expect perfection, because as you say, the English language is indeed weird, but the extra effort is appreciated. Thanks for stopping by and offering your support.
Aaron Johnson - Nov 9, 2007 3:50 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Grammar & Spelling-Sad CommentaryHmm-I thought I'd corrected them all...looking again. GOT IT! Thanks Ed.
Ed F - Nov 9, 2007 4:10 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Grammar & Spelling-Sad CommentaryNo prob. I only noticed one of them, so you must have found it. Incidentally, thanks for putting this together. It's amazing to me that in the age of spell check and grammar check that people err so often expressing themselves on the internet.
Bob Bolton - Nov 9, 2007 8:23 pm - Voted 10/10
Awl thoze grammer n speling airers driv mee nutz two!Nise jawbb awn thiss gize! Mae bee i kin fineley lurn hough too rite form you're efarts. yore thuh gr8ist--thanx!
Aaron Johnson - Nov 9, 2007 10:36 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Awl thoze grammer n speling airers driv mee nutz two!Why, thankee dare Bobby!
Wandering Sole Images - Nov 10, 2007 3:05 am - Hasn't voted
Great idea for a page.I hope that those who most need to read this do just that! These things just seem so common sense that it's funny people have to be told. One thing I have a problem with is when people don't even use capital letters in the name of their beloved mountain - some times even in the titles of their pages! Or there's always that new trend... spelling "lose" as "loose." I can't figure that one for the life of me. I never saw that until a few years ago and now a lot of people have jumped on that bandwagon. I hope that people who don't take the time to proofread their own pages have a look at this. Nice work!
Les
PS - I also think SP should start reviewing any pages that have fallen below some threshold - maybe 20%? Some have been sitting there for years from the looks of it.
Aaron Johnson - Nov 10, 2007 10:16 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Great idea for a page.Hi Les. These things should be common sense to most English speaking folks, but that's not the case, and there are many reasons. Background, how they were raised, education, environment, multilingual influences and many other factors can have an influence. I've found most folks write well enough to be understood and that's it. Then of course you have the rebels, who won't learn it for many selfish reasons, or actually know how to write well but refuse to do so for whatever reasons. We certainly have all types here at SP.
Some folks will rebel and ignore this page and continue to be bad writers. There's nothing we can do about it. Others will embrace this page, and those are the ones we hope to assist, and those are the ones that will help make SP better.
I'll include the "lose" and "loose" thing.
Proofreading is easier now with grammar and spellcheck functions on our computers, yet folks fail to look after themselves when submitting stuff. Hopefully for those that want to do better, this resource will help them.
SP automatically detaches pages and makes them invisible when they fall below a certain percentage, although that percentage is reall, really low. When SP was smaller, a culling of neglected pages by the staff was not an unreasonable exercise, but today, it would be a considerable time consuming chore. One possibility would be to raise the threshhold, but I would be against that, as each page needs to be handled on a case by case basis. Each page will have exceptions, circumstances and contributions from other members to be considered. So currently, when a page is in bad shape, the staff will transfer it to someone willing to make it better, or eventually it's deleted once we can figure out what to do with the content, namely photos. Otherwise, the page either remains invisible or ignored. It's the nature of the beast!
Thanks for taking the time to stop by and comment and offer your support.
Mark Doiron - Nov 10, 2007 5:45 pm - Voted 10/10
Thanks ...This is a great resource. And thanks for the nice compliment above, Aaron! But "your" is mispelled ("yor"). A typo, I'm sure. :-) --mark d.
donhaller3 - Nov 13, 2007 9:19 pm - Hasn't voted
InterestingI hope it doesn't intimidate anybody.
It is difficult to tell whether pedantry begins with the serve or the volley, but the list of irregular verbs has some archaisms of commission and omission.
"Durst?" "Abode" as past tense? "Shore" but no "shorn?"
I cannot remember anyone saying "chid" in written or spoken English, but I have heard "chided" lots of times. "Pled" seems to be rapidly edging out "pleaded" even among lawyers.
I think some of the above examples are more likely to add confusion than to add clarity.
However, I will try to be less sloppy, and less telegraphic, but sometimes I will be tired or short of time, or both.
What I really need is a failsafe way to deal with parentheses or quotes, or both, at the end of a clause or sentence. Never looks right. (Fragment acceptable in colloquial English.)
So is this the beginning of "The SP Style Book?"
Aaron Johnson - Nov 14, 2007 6:07 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: InterestingHi Don. This page is going to be what each member wants it to be. We do not expect perfection, nor will we be checking on everyone's style and correctness. This page is hopefully a tool to help folks become better writers on SP. For those that choose to ignore it, well, there's nothing we can do about that, and it's up to them to decide what they'll use the page for, if at all. In the end, it's up to you, the contributor.
I know what you mean about parentheses and quotes. I'm wrestling with that issue all the time. I'm trying to get away from the parentheses whenever I can. I usually default to putting quotes at the end of a line, or after a comma, because that's the way I've seen it done the most in books.
Bottom line is you enjoy your time on SP, and if that means referring to this page now and then for whatever reason, that's great. Thanks for stopping by and commenting. Have fun with SP!
tanya - Jan 3, 2008 3:59 pm - Voted 10/10
Awesome Page!!!I had to bookmark this one! :)
Aaron Johnson - Jan 3, 2008 7:02 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Awesome Page!!!Thanks. Glad you liked it! Thanks for stopping by.
Cascade Scrambler - Feb 23, 2009 12:09 am - Voted 10/10
Thanks!Thank you for putting together a resource that addresses my biggest pet peeves- spelling, grammar, and punctuation!
Aaron Johnson - Feb 23, 2009 6:10 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Thanks!You're welcome sir! Thanks for stopping by this rarely visited spot on SP. Glad it helped you out!
yatsek - Jul 1, 2009 7:15 pm - Voted 10/10
Attached+1 I've attached a child page on some grammatical problems (aimed at non-US/UK SP'ers).
2 I'd add "chamoises" to the incorrect plurals.
3 And "accomodation" to the commonly misspelled words.
Cheers
Jacek aka Yatsek