Maybe the concept of "owning" stuff on the internet is just not up to date anymore.
There isn't as much to own anymore either. Almost all of the popular and well known mountains (at least in North America and Europe) were added long ago. It's harder now for new members (and older ones too) to add new content.
Many people think that if they delete what they have written on the Internet it goes away. Nothing can be more wrong. In this case it is a good thing because Aaron Johnson’s articles about the SP history are well-written and interesting.
If you are interested, you can find the articles here:
Diego, if you look up at Hans's comment, you can find links for archived versions of Parts 1-3. They definitely are worth a read if you never read them before.
Thanks Bob, I have been reading some although I read the old ones sometimes before
workmanflock - Jan 29, 2015 11:05 pm - Hasn't voted
Easy solution
Redirect all complaints from lolli or attm to either your spam folder or forward them on to each other and let them have it out. The death of PNP lead to the stagnation of the forums. The best moderation would have been for the moderators to delete messages from whiny members and let people have their sandbox to play in.
Who would have thought 14ers.com would eventually whup everyone?
This reads like a Soviet pamphlet denouncing Zinoviev for insufficient devotion to Comrade Stalin. Get a life, people! I'm surprised anyone got out of the house. Mind you, I did enjoy lurking on the forums back in 2009-2010 to see The Chief cross swords with all & sundry...also Vitaliy and Burchey brought some fun. However, SP is primarily about content - and the content remains top notch. For beta on a new mountain, SP is my first port of call.
people in the forums lately and I can only guess that it's got something to do with this article. Just looked and there were 51 members on it?? Haven't seen numbers like that in a very long time.
This post is from a former member who, despite what was said in the article, is not allowed back for other reasons. I wanted to preserve his viewpoint in fairness to him, though.
"Well well... That was a nice read. Lots of info, very few mistakes, respectable and well said. Thank you for not making it what it could have been. And it's sad that it's not more positive than the last three, and now lost, history articles (I remember them fondly). I noticed my username was available and my IP's unbanned, soooooo... I thought this article at least deserved my reply and a minor correction. Hello everyone, and long time no see. I am the founder of VCF. I use to be very close friends with the infamous troll and I feel somewhat responsible for unleashing her on your world and handing her the keys, for that I apologize, it was a poor idea in the long run. I am sure most of you have heard terrible unforgivable things about me in my absents (created to intentional smear me). This article hits very close to home after experiencing real world legal battles and dealing with some of the characters involved in very unpleasant circumstances. I am happy to report I have severed ties with the entire climbing community and the people involved in it after those experiences, it was the best choice I have ever made. I now have a wonderful 2 year old daughter who climbs better than Bob and takes much of my time. I don't have as much time to waste getting drunk and stupid in the wilderness anymore, but if you want to have a beer with me, I will drink your beer anytime...lol -Squishy"
I signed up in 2002, I think SP started in 2001. It was great and populated with all manner of fascinating characters. I followed closely checking the forums several times a day. I posted fairly often but nearly all of the posts seem to be gone.
Anyway, the fun eventually died and I quit looking at SP with any regularity long before things got really heated. As soon as I could see it starting, it put me off and I simply wasn't interested anymore.
I check the site 5 or 6 times a year now.
I had a few "mountains and Rocks" but managed to get rid of them.
I bet there used to be a thousand people using the forum and maybe 10 or so that ruined it.
Indeed these are "times gone by." SP has entered that "mature" phase when the primary goal of the site is finally the driving force behind it-to provide content and info about a mountain, canyon, etc. On my infrequent visits to SP, usually to RESEARCH a destination, I have noticed the forums are very quiet. If you want a lively forum, other sites provide it.
I found this article during a recent visit and I contacted Bob via PM complimenting him on it. And that is the primary reason for this post, to reiterate that compliment. It's not easy writing this type of article, particularly when you have little info to back it up. I know the original articles, though not on SP, are still available (and have been for a while), which is good for Bob. Perhaps it will help in composing his next and presumably final chapter. It may add considerable time to his writing effort as well. It is appropriate however that the articles are no longer officially on SP. My reasoning can be read in this old thread.
For those who want to learn more about what has led to the point SP finds itself in now, some tenacious digging in the forum backlogs will reveal some gems, but the prospector will have to be very determined, just as I was when I wrote the original articles so long ago.
My daughter contacted me today. She was researching on SP and found this article. She was "beside herself" about the comments concerning me and this article. I'm not entirely clear about her feelings on the matter, but I told her not to be bothered one way or another about it. It's not worth getting worked up about. SP has clearly moved on, and I certainly have as well.
My visits to SP are rare-maybe once a month during the warmer months. My presence will continue to be spare. Our battle to remove Mount Evans from the fee system was successful, and since then my involvement in the anti-fee battlefield has been significantly reduced. For many, I suppose my presence on SP is an irksome reminder of "challenging" times best forgotten, and I know I'm not on a large collection of favorite persons lists! Ha ha ha! It's better that I am absent in this stage of SP's life.
It's true that anything you write and post on the internet is no longer yours, despite SP's claims that you still own your material. This is why I no longer write for any web site other than my own, and I certainly understand a book author's position on the matter.
A reference was made in the comments directing to my home page concerning SP's demise. I still stand on my comment, but it has nothing to do with SP, but the internet in general. ALL will indeed be dust.
Bob says he'll notify me when the next article is completed. I look forward to reading it. I do not envy him his task. A member suggested I write SP History V4 long ago. I couldn't bring myself to do it. Better Bob than me! Ha ha ha! I wish Bob well in his endeavor, and I hope SP's members enjoy it as much as they have enjoyed the previous installments of "the series."
I wish SP and its members the best in the coming years. Stay safe and continue to climb! We are so fortunate to have this freedom and physical ability! It's a blessing indeed.
I just read through this and have seen it before, via Fourteeners.com and such. I find it hard to believe such a beautiful thing as the outdoors can be turned into something altogether different. Because of that I check in once in awhile to see if there is any local stuff (Colorado and Utah) that interests me but with the exception of this I am writing I stay out of the forums because my focus will always remain on the grand theme of loving, adventuring, and respecting the great outdoors. Having said this I hope that for all those that venture outside that it is first about respect for which gives of so much joy both in beauty and in challenge. Cheerio.....
I've been away for awhile from SP, but saw this & had to read what you labored on Bob. This brought back a lot of memories, mostly funny of people getting bent out of shape.
Memories of past members. One I actually do miss. But....
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. It was enjoyable.
It is much easier to post a trip report on Facebook, or on your own site, than on SP.
The basic premise of SP, that the best articles get the best voting record, is silly and 95% incorrect. The people who mutually back-pat get the most votes for their articles. You spend a lot of time writing an article and no one reads it.
SP is still the among the best places to get reasoned information on conditions and gear.
I get 2-10 requests per week for route information. I send maps and gps files, and explanatory photos. Likewise, when I need information about other locales, I contact the folks who live nearby or who have been there recently.
People have gotten more and more information-challenged. Perhaps smartphones have done that, making people believe that anything should be up-to-date and available the minute they want it. They do not feel obliged to plan ahead, or read preparatory material.
Gangolf Haub - Jan 20, 2015 12:04 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: PNP Lite ...Maybe you should get an interesting job? Mine isn't but it keeps me busy these days.
Bob Sihler - Jan 21, 2015 9:43 am - Hasn't voted
Re: PNP Lite ...Some days I get enough drama to provide interest for a week. The occasional quiet day can be nice.
Scott - Feb 3, 2015 9:18 am - Hasn't voted
Re: PNP Lite ...Maybe the concept of "owning" stuff on the internet is just not up to date anymore.
There isn't as much to own anymore either. Almost all of the popular and well known mountains (at least in North America and Europe) were added long ago. It's harder now for new members (and older ones too) to add new content.
hansw - Jan 24, 2015 5:23 pm - Voted 10/10
History, Part I-IIIMany people think that if they delete what they have written on the Internet it goes away. Nothing can be more wrong. In this case it is a good thing because Aaron Johnson’s articles about the SP history are well-written and interesting.
If you are interested, you can find the articles here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20061111081814/http://www.summitpost.org/article/188606/summitpost-org.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20061111083739/http://www.summitpost.org/article/191984/summitpost-org-part-two.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20061110200820/http://www.summitpost.org/article/197550/summitpost-org-part-three.html
It may take them a few seconds to load.
Bob Sihler - Jan 24, 2015 10:50 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: History, Part I-IIIThanks, Hans. It's been a long time since I've read them, and I look forward to another read.
isostatic - Jan 25, 2015 8:50 am - Hasn't voted
Prolific postersFor those of you who want to be reminded of the names of the most prolific posters the following threads are recommended:
http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/most-prolific-posters-and-postmasters-on-summitpost-t50894.html?hilit=postmasters
http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/most-prolific-posters-and-postmasters-on-summitpost-t50894-168.html?hilit=postmasters
Diego Sahagún - Jan 29, 2015 5:29 am - Hasn't voted
Is there a part III?I can't find "The History of SummitPost Part III" Bob...
Scott - Jan 29, 2015 9:16 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Is there a part III?That's because the writer of the article deleted them when he left SP. It says that at the beginning of this article.
Diego Sahagún - Feb 2, 2015 5:16 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Is there a part III?I didn't notice. Thank you very much Scott
Bob Sihler - Feb 2, 2015 9:47 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Is there a part III?Diego, if you look up at Hans's comment, you can find links for archived versions of Parts 1-3. They definitely are worth a read if you never read them before.
Diego Sahagún - Feb 17, 2015 8:12 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Is there a part III?Thanks Bob, I have been reading some although I read the old ones sometimes before
workmanflock - Jan 29, 2015 11:05 pm - Hasn't voted
Easy solutionRedirect all complaints from lolli or attm to either your spam folder or forward them on to each other and let them have it out. The death of PNP lead to the stagnation of the forums. The best moderation would have been for the moderators to delete messages from whiny members and let people have their sandbox to play in.
Who would have thought 14ers.com would eventually whup everyone?
RaymondShevsky - Feb 2, 2015 4:34 am - Hasn't voted
Honor and praise to the historic SPThis reads like a Soviet pamphlet denouncing Zinoviev for insufficient devotion to Comrade Stalin. Get a life, people! I'm surprised anyone got out of the house. Mind you, I did enjoy lurking on the forums back in 2009-2010 to see The Chief cross swords with all & sundry...also Vitaliy and Burchey brought some fun. However, SP is primarily about content - and the content remains top notch. For beta on a new mountain, SP is my first port of call.
Bill Reed - Feb 4, 2015 4:15 pm - Hasn't voted
Seem to be a lot ofpeople in the forums lately and I can only guess that it's got something to do with this article. Just looked and there were 51 members on it?? Haven't seen numbers like that in a very long time.
Bob Sihler - Feb 6, 2015 9:38 pm - Hasn't voted
A former member saysThis post is from a former member who, despite what was said in the article, is not allowed back for other reasons. I wanted to preserve his viewpoint in fairness to him, though.
"Well well... That was a nice read. Lots of info, very few mistakes, respectable and well said. Thank you for not making it what it could have been. And it's sad that it's not more positive than the last three, and now lost, history articles (I remember them fondly). I noticed my username was available and my IP's unbanned, soooooo... I thought this article at least deserved my reply and a minor correction. Hello everyone, and long time no see. I am the founder of VCF. I use to be very close friends with the infamous troll and I feel somewhat responsible for unleashing her on your world and handing her the keys, for that I apologize, it was a poor idea in the long run. I am sure most of you have heard terrible unforgivable things about me in my absents (created to intentional smear me). This article hits very close to home after experiencing real world legal battles and dealing with some of the characters involved in very unpleasant circumstances. I am happy to report I have severed ties with the entire climbing community and the people involved in it after those experiences, it was the best choice I have ever made. I now have a wonderful 2 year old daughter who climbs better than Bob and takes much of my time. I don't have as much time to waste getting drunk and stupid in the wilderness anymore, but if you want to have a beer with me, I will drink your beer anytime...lol -Squishy"
danmerrick - Feb 16, 2015 6:56 pm - Hasn't voted
Gone are the daysI signed up in 2002, I think SP started in 2001. It was great and populated with all manner of fascinating characters. I followed closely checking the forums several times a day. I posted fairly often but nearly all of the posts seem to be gone.
Anyway, the fun eventually died and I quit looking at SP with any regularity long before things got really heated. As soon as I could see it starting, it put me off and I simply wasn't interested anymore.
I check the site 5 or 6 times a year now.
I had a few "mountains and Rocks" but managed to get rid of them.
I bet there used to be a thousand people using the forum and maybe 10 or so that ruined it.
Aaron Johnson - Feb 18, 2015 3:18 pm - Voted 10/10
Times Gone ByHello All-
Indeed these are "times gone by." SP has entered that "mature" phase when the primary goal of the site is finally the driving force behind it-to provide content and info about a mountain, canyon, etc. On my infrequent visits to SP, usually to RESEARCH a destination, I have noticed the forums are very quiet. If you want a lively forum, other sites provide it.
I found this article during a recent visit and I contacted Bob via PM complimenting him on it. And that is the primary reason for this post, to reiterate that compliment. It's not easy writing this type of article, particularly when you have little info to back it up. I know the original articles, though not on SP, are still available (and have been for a while), which is good for Bob. Perhaps it will help in composing his next and presumably final chapter. It may add considerable time to his writing effort as well. It is appropriate however that the articles are no longer officially on SP. My reasoning can be read in this old thread.
For those who want to learn more about what has led to the point SP finds itself in now, some tenacious digging in the forum backlogs will reveal some gems, but the prospector will have to be very determined, just as I was when I wrote the original articles so long ago.
My daughter contacted me today. She was researching on SP and found this article. She was "beside herself" about the comments concerning me and this article. I'm not entirely clear about her feelings on the matter, but I told her not to be bothered one way or another about it. It's not worth getting worked up about. SP has clearly moved on, and I certainly have as well.
My visits to SP are rare-maybe once a month during the warmer months. My presence will continue to be spare. Our battle to remove Mount Evans from the fee system was successful, and since then my involvement in the anti-fee battlefield has been significantly reduced. For many, I suppose my presence on SP is an irksome reminder of "challenging" times best forgotten, and I know I'm not on a large collection of favorite persons lists! Ha ha ha! It's better that I am absent in this stage of SP's life.
It's true that anything you write and post on the internet is no longer yours, despite SP's claims that you still own your material. This is why I no longer write for any web site other than my own, and I certainly understand a book author's position on the matter.
A reference was made in the comments directing to my home page concerning SP's demise. I still stand on my comment, but it has nothing to do with SP, but the internet in general. ALL will indeed be dust.
Bob says he'll notify me when the next article is completed. I look forward to reading it. I do not envy him his task. A member suggested I write SP History V4 long ago. I couldn't bring myself to do it. Better Bob than me! Ha ha ha! I wish Bob well in his endeavor, and I hope SP's members enjoy it as much as they have enjoyed the previous installments of "the series."
I wish SP and its members the best in the coming years. Stay safe and continue to climb! We are so fortunate to have this freedom and physical ability! It's a blessing indeed.
Take care,
Respectfully,
Aaron Johnson
Hawkwind - Feb 19, 2015 1:58 pm - Hasn't voted
Love of the OutdoorsI just read through this and have seen it before, via Fourteeners.com and such. I find it hard to believe such a beautiful thing as the outdoors can be turned into something altogether different. Because of that I check in once in awhile to see if there is any local stuff (Colorado and Utah) that interests me but with the exception of this I am writing I stay out of the forums because my focus will always remain on the grand theme of loving, adventuring, and respecting the great outdoors. Having said this I hope that for all those that venture outside that it is first about respect for which gives of so much joy both in beauty and in challenge. Cheerio.....
Kiefer - Mar 4, 2015 9:03 pm - Voted 10/10
Ahhh, the memories!I've been away for awhile from SP, but saw this & had to read what you labored on Bob. This brought back a lot of memories, mostly funny of people getting bent out of shape.
Memories of past members. One I actually do miss. But....
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. It was enjoyable.
MoapaPk - Mar 5, 2015 5:26 pm - Hasn't voted
my viewIt is much easier to post a trip report on Facebook, or on your own site, than on SP.
The basic premise of SP, that the best articles get the best voting record, is silly and 95% incorrect. The people who mutually back-pat get the most votes for their articles. You spend a lot of time writing an article and no one reads it.
SP is still the among the best places to get reasoned information on conditions and gear.
I get 2-10 requests per week for route information. I send maps and gps files, and explanatory photos. Likewise, when I need information about other locales, I contact the folks who live nearby or who have been there recently.
People have gotten more and more information-challenged. Perhaps smartphones have done that, making people believe that anything should be up-to-date and available the minute they want it. They do not feel obliged to plan ahead, or read preparatory material.