Thanks for writing this up Silversummit, the lessons learned from each experience in the back country, added all together, lead to a point where we might someday be [finally] fully prepared for the next outing! Gaining that experience is where it is at! Beautiful pictures too!
Cheers;
Tim
Thanks Tim! I learned from what you wrote about your group leading experience and if someone gains anything from my day on that trail it will be worthwhile. And thanks for the compliment about my pictures; coming from you this means alot!---Kathy
I was on a BSA backpacking trip in the Porcupine Mountains in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and we accidentally split our group on the trail. The faster group (six teenagers) took what we thought was he proper trail to our campsite and the slower group (one teenager and two adults) did the same. Each group had maps and knew the route. However, as it later turned out, there were two marked trails that paralleled each other for two miles before rejoining. We were split up and each group was sure that they were on the proper trail. We ended up running up and down the trails for an hour blowing our safety whistles before we found each other. Ironically, our campsites were just a few hundred yards apart. That experience taught all of us the importance of keeping the group together.
Thanks for posting.
Goes to show that even with maps and whistles things can go haywire. If you don't mind, I'm going to use your story as another example of why groups need to stay together at least until you hit crossroads or splits in the trail. And thanks for your input!
By all means. We certainly learned from it and it illustrates how even an experienced group (all of us had been backpacking many times before this) can really mess up when they divide up.
Looking at these pictures, it's almost (I said ALMOST!) understandable how you would just want to get on the trail...sometimes I think that "summit fever" should be a formal disease. Heck, it's probably caused enough of it's own injury and, perhaps, deaths! You just want to CLIMB...
That was definitely a factor. The other adult said he was having trouble keeping up with three of the teenagers zooming ahead but he wouldn't give up trying for the top, unlike me! He pushed himself farther than he wanted but he also didn't want the guys to be going ahead without an adult; sort of a no win situation. Good point!
It's always a challenge to hike as a single unit. I remember back
in my Mountaineering Club days, how some people would always lag
behind and want to talk. Some were more "goal-orientated" than most. You have different "personality types" on the TRAIL.
If everybody were to work as a UNIT, that would be dandy.
You & I KNOW that it always doesn't work that way.
Some people would rather view the lofty summit from the parking lot !!!
Larry
silversummit - Oct 6, 2008 10:08 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Social standards ...
Hiking as a group...Ah...we always strive for that and rarely get it! I've hoofed it with every type of hiker. Being responsible for all them "free thinking" free spirits is tough sometimes. Never found the perfect group yet! Good words of wisdom Larry!
There's nothing wrong with splitting up (except perhaps when you're married). Actually, I usually find it a must - just each part has to have a fairly experienced leader and a cell phone/walkie-talkie. And you've got to stick to the iron rule; "If lost and can't get in touch, get back to the place where you parted."
After the pedophile cases in the 1980's the Boy Scouts adopted the "two-deep leadership" policy where no adult is ever left alone with a scout. During a hike, this is enforced by having the slowest hiker lead the crew. Everybody stays together that way.
I have noticed there is a paradox with some Boy Scout leaders. The people who think that their outdoor skills qualify them to be a scoutmaster, also tend to think that BSA policies do not apply to them. It does not sound like Silversummit is one of these.
Prior to our annual high adventure trip, our troop trains with a series of overnight backpacking trips. This also helps to let the out-of-shape hikers know what they are facing, and a chance to opt out.
Just to clear up: my 2nd message did not refer to US Scouts, whose rules, and especially the idea of trial hiking seems pretty sensible to me. I meant less organized hiking in a different country.
Very well written. I feel like I was right there watching you make the mistakes and not being able to say anything. Great Job and welcome to SP. And oh, thanks for voting on both of my boys pictures!
silversummit - Oct 21, 2008 7:40 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Great Story
I appreciate your kind words. Everyone has truly made me feel so welcome in a short time. And I enjoyed your Trip Report about getting into back into shape --- 7 strokes ---Yikes! But it sounds like you have things going in the right direction now!
Thanks again for reading my TR.--Kathy
I enjoyed your well written account as well as the forthright description of what to do next time. Been caught up in that "gotta hike this" fever before and know how that can happen. Very good read. Thanks for sharing.
silversummit - Nov 13, 2008 9:25 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Very informative
Glad you enjoyed it and I know we have all been caught up in that "gotta get there NOW" syndrome. I caught myself falling prey to it recently on a simple hike just because it was raining!
I can't resist a comment about bear bells. They are a false sense of security, the best thing you can do is talk and shout up the trail when going around a bend, Identifying yourself as human to any bears potentially in the area. Many Glacier is known for its dense grizzly population.
I hope you get the chance to go back and successfully and safely hike to the glacier.
T Sharp - Oct 5, 2008 7:05 pm - Voted 10/10
Great Trip Report!Thanks for writing this up Silversummit, the lessons learned from each experience in the back country, added all together, lead to a point where we might someday be [finally] fully prepared for the next outing! Gaining that experience is where it is at! Beautiful pictures too!
Cheers;
Tim
silversummit - Oct 5, 2008 7:39 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Great Trip Report!Thanks Tim! I learned from what you wrote about your group leading experience and if someone gains anything from my day on that trail it will be worthwhile. And thanks for the compliment about my pictures; coming from you this means alot!---Kathy
woodsxc - Oct 5, 2008 10:43 pm - Voted 10/10
Splitting the GroupI was on a BSA backpacking trip in the Porcupine Mountains in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and we accidentally split our group on the trail. The faster group (six teenagers) took what we thought was he proper trail to our campsite and the slower group (one teenager and two adults) did the same. Each group had maps and knew the route. However, as it later turned out, there were two marked trails that paralleled each other for two miles before rejoining. We were split up and each group was sure that they were on the proper trail. We ended up running up and down the trails for an hour blowing our safety whistles before we found each other. Ironically, our campsites were just a few hundred yards apart. That experience taught all of us the importance of keeping the group together.
Thanks for posting.
yatsek - Oct 6, 2008 9:30 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Splitting the GroupI don't normally like using my mobile phone at all, but in the mountains it has already proven helpful a couple of times
silversummit - Oct 6, 2008 8:58 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Splitting the GroupI agree! We sometimes use walkie-talkies where cell phones don't work and they would have been so useful here!
silversummit - Oct 6, 2008 9:03 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Splitting the GroupGoes to show that even with maps and whistles things can go haywire. If you don't mind, I'm going to use your story as another example of why groups need to stay together at least until you hit crossroads or splits in the trail. And thanks for your input!
woodsxc - Oct 6, 2008 9:41 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Splitting the GroupBy all means. We certainly learned from it and it illustrates how even an experienced group (all of us had been backpacking many times before this) can really mess up when they divide up.
imzadi - Oct 6, 2008 11:50 am - Voted 10/10
the feverLooking at these pictures, it's almost (I said ALMOST!) understandable how you would just want to get on the trail...sometimes I think that "summit fever" should be a formal disease. Heck, it's probably caused enough of it's own injury and, perhaps, deaths! You just want to CLIMB...
silversummit - Oct 6, 2008 8:56 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: the feverThat was definitely a factor. The other adult said he was having trouble keeping up with three of the teenagers zooming ahead but he wouldn't give up trying for the top, unlike me! He pushed himself farther than he wanted but he also didn't want the guys to be going ahead without an adult; sort of a no win situation. Good point!
lcarreau - Oct 6, 2008 9:25 pm - Voted 10/10
Social standards ...It's always a challenge to hike as a single unit. I remember back
in my Mountaineering Club days, how some people would always lag
behind and want to talk. Some were more "goal-orientated" than most. You have different "personality types" on the TRAIL.
If everybody were to work as a UNIT, that would be dandy.
You & I KNOW that it always doesn't work that way.
Some people would rather view the lofty summit from the parking lot !!!
Larry
silversummit - Oct 6, 2008 10:08 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Social standards ...Hiking as a group...Ah...we always strive for that and rarely get it! I've hoofed it with every type of hiker. Being responsible for all them "free thinking" free spirits is tough sometimes. Never found the perfect group yet! Good words of wisdom Larry!
yatsek - Oct 7, 2008 2:27 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Social standards ...There's nothing wrong with splitting up (except perhaps when you're married). Actually, I usually find it a must - just each part has to have a fairly experienced leader and a cell phone/walkie-talkie. And you've got to stick to the iron rule; "If lost and can't get in touch, get back to the place where you parted."
wkriesel - Oct 8, 2008 10:41 am - Hasn't voted
BSA policiesAfter the pedophile cases in the 1980's the Boy Scouts adopted the "two-deep leadership" policy where no adult is ever left alone with a scout. During a hike, this is enforced by having the slowest hiker lead the crew. Everybody stays together that way.
I have noticed there is a paradox with some Boy Scout leaders. The people who think that their outdoor skills qualify them to be a scoutmaster, also tend to think that BSA policies do not apply to them. It does not sound like Silversummit is one of these.
Prior to our annual high adventure trip, our troop trains with a series of overnight backpacking trips. This also helps to let the out-of-shape hikers know what they are facing, and a chance to opt out.
yatsek - Oct 8, 2008 4:48 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: BSA policiesJust to clear up: my 2nd message did not refer to US Scouts, whose rules, and especially the idea of trial hiking seems pretty sensible to me. I meant less organized hiking in a different country.
Deltaoperator17 - Oct 21, 2008 3:38 pm - Voted 10/10
Great StoryKathy,
Very well written. I feel like I was right there watching you make the mistakes and not being able to say anything. Great Job and welcome to SP. And oh, thanks for voting on both of my boys pictures!
silversummit - Oct 21, 2008 7:40 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Great StoryI appreciate your kind words. Everyone has truly made me feel so welcome in a short time. And I enjoyed your Trip Report about getting into back into shape --- 7 strokes ---Yikes! But it sounds like you have things going in the right direction now!
Thanks again for reading my TR.--Kathy
Deltaoperator17 - Nov 12, 2008 3:09 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Great StoryKathy,
I put an Article on SP check it out and let me know what you think.
Steve
nextyearranier - Nov 4, 2008 2:21 pm - Hasn't voted
Very informativeI enjoyed your well written account as well as the forthright description of what to do next time. Been caught up in that "gotta hike this" fever before and know how that can happen. Very good read. Thanks for sharing.
silversummit - Nov 13, 2008 9:25 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Very informativeGlad you enjoyed it and I know we have all been caught up in that "gotta get there NOW" syndrome. I caught myself falling prey to it recently on a simple hike just because it was raining!
KristinaAL - Dec 13, 2008 8:09 am - Voted 10/10
Good Trip reportoffering lots tips that others can learn from.
I can't resist a comment about bear bells. They are a false sense of security, the best thing you can do is talk and shout up the trail when going around a bend, Identifying yourself as human to any bears potentially in the area. Many Glacier is known for its dense grizzly population.
I hope you get the chance to go back and successfully and safely hike to the glacier.