Very interesting report on an area I've never seen pictures of! I didn't realize the Urals got that rugged. It sounds like quite an amazing expedition. thanks for posting!
And you took gorgeous photos of this area! These two reports of yours I see as a valuable contribution here on SP, as the region you visit most certainly follows among the "rarities"!
Again greetings,
Eric
Although the name Narodnaya has been bestowed by Aleshkov's party in honor of the victorious revolutionary people, he took a strong hint from the old name of Naroda Creek at the peak's base.
The old name, Naroda Creek, may have been Komi or Mansi or even corrupted Russian in origin, but it most definitely didn't mean "Belonging to the People" then.
So the 1927 name was coined as a pun ... an inside joke almost ... one the one hand, "the peak of Naroda headwaters", but on the other had, "of the people". And to this day the geographers and the outdoorspeople argue which of the meanings should be right :)
Thanks for writing about my beloved Urals!
You are abslolutly right. In 1927 geologist Aleshkov named the peak in honor of the Soviet people (at 10th annivesory of the Great October Revolution) - Narodnaya (Nar'odnaya), but also by association with the name of Naroda (N'aroda) river. Therefore the name Naroda (N'aroda) for the peak is also legal. It was even used for 1 : 100,000 topographical map of the peak area - Q-41-97,98. Besides, there are often said N'arodnaya in Russia. Such the name was invented approx in 1958 and it is a bit ambiguous.
Nowadays there has been known even more old name of the peak - Poen-Urr by Mansi people. It was found in Hungarian scientist Antal Reguly's works who visited and explored the North Ural in 1843-1847 yrs.
Altitudes of quite a few of Ural peaks were very unaccurate for a long time - you can see them on plenty of different old maps and in literature.
Contemporary altitudes of the main Ural peaks on the topographical map 1 : 100,000 (fixed and produced in 1991) are definitly accurate : Naroda (Narodnaya) - 1895.0, Manaraga - 1663.5, Karpinskogo - 1803.4 and so on.
By the way in the past N'aroda river was spelled as N'oraty (in Antal Reguly's works).
from folks venturing into obscure, remote areas. The only thing; I don't think I live in Asia, although my place of residence is a full 450 kilometres east of Vienna...
Asia: I did not want to be offensive. What I meant, for example, is the gradual change in the way villages look like. A straight road, lined with green strips at both sides, walkways with ducks, one-storey houses, all looking very similar, babushki sitting in front on benches, chatting with each other. This picture you find from east of Vienna to Vladivostok.
Also: Along with the switch from a protestant/Roman catholic to an orthodox environment goes the increasiung intensity by which you are "controlled" by police, militia and security. The percentage of uniformed people versus "normal" ones is significantly higher. Uniformity is an Asian trait. In that sense Asia begins creeping in already in the Ukraine and Belarus. You are expected to travel in a group, not alone. Take the treatment at the border crossings as an indicator. The message is: you are not welcome, you are suspect.
Further east, Asiatic minorities mingle with ethnic Russians, and this in areas that are "normally" considered Europe: Take the Tatars, the Kalmyks, the Chechnians. The same if you take the Balkans: Kosovo and Albania are strikingly Turk to the eyes of the superficial tourist. Turkey is Asia.
All I am saying is: there is no distinct separation line between Europe and Asia, neither geographic, nor cultural, nor religious, nor social. And politically? Look into the Lisbon contract of the EU: You won't find a word of definition of what "Europe" is and is to be.
Caution: This comment needed to be short and to the point. A more differentiating comment would have been better.
No offence, but when it comes to accuracy: it's Hungary that lies east of Vienna. Hungary is part of Central Europe; east of Central Europe sits East Europe, which is still west of Asia. My father went to Vorkuta (although he didn't want to) and watched the Urals on the horizon for quite a while so I know best.:)
I am curious about whether carrying detailed maps and a camera can get you in trouble with Russian security, however. I have heard some stories that they are sensitive.
Trouble? Simple answer: yes and no. The trouble mainly is that you are frequently controlled as such. It may happen they carry you away to an "interview". Don't worry. Nothing will happen as long as you explain where you have the maps from (Russian sources, Internet), why you have a camera (hobby pictures only, show them). Most interested they are in GPS and they often ask if you have one. Yes of course. Show it to them. Show what you do with a GPS. Finally declare them your friends. Make drushba. No Russian can withstand that.
My explanation is that in remote areas of Russia people have never seen a tourist and cannot easily understand the concept of tourism. Be open, be polite, be cooperative. Avoid inviting trouble. Don't take pictures of uniformed persons, ask them for permission. Don't worry if you are arrested though. This is only transient and adds to your adventure. You will love Russia once you have experienced that.
1820 m high for Manaraga is often mentioned in old litereture and maps (usually 2 km scale). The history is that certain tourists climbed onto the summit of Manaraga in 1954 and measured its height with barometer. Until 1990th a lot of other Ural peaks didn't had correct altitudes on public maps - perhaps on military purpose. Accurate maps were top secret documents.
And yeas the Naroda summit is actually in Asia.
Second summit (the north-west shoulder) of Naroda is the watershed and the highest point of the Komi republic. It is approx 1800-1820 m high. It is such a whim of the topoghraphy. You can look at http://natty55555.funpic.org by yourself.
> Wolfgang Schaub sent the following message:
>
> Dear Natty55555,
>
> thank you for posting. Very nice to learn more about gora Naroda, its name and history.
>
> Still the question is unsolved for me, where EXACTLY is the highest point of the Komi-Republic? Certainly it is NOT the main summit, but somewhere on the north west shoulder. And how high is this point?
>
> Best regards,
You can see the highest point of Komi at the picture natty55555.funpic.org/prip37.jpg . It is on the right - about 500m from the main peak.
What high it is? I don't know exactly but it is higher than mt Karpinskogo 1803.4 m and mt Zashita 1808 m. Probably about 1820 m high.
You can see the Komi border on the map as well - natty55555.funpic.org/map.jpg
I was there and standed on the brink of a precipice. There was a beautiful view from there towards Mount Yanchenko 1740.9 m.
Being a notorious highpoint collector I cannot omit, of course, the north west shoulder. I measure its height with GPS as 1821 – 1830 m and determine its coordinates with 65° 02.232'N 60° 06.121'O and claim without knowing better that this is the highest point of the Komi Republic. As expected, there is neither a triangulation post, nor a border marker. Towards W and S a face drops almost perpendicularly down into the valleys of the Manaraga – towards Europe – and the Naroda – towards Asia, respectively. At the same time I stand on the continental divide. 15 o'clock.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Wolfgang,
I don't think there is any doubt You were at the highest point of the Komi republic.
If you go along the saddle from the wooden cross in the opposite direction of the main summit, the saddle will smoothly rise a little bit and suddenly drop off into the deep gulf. The edge of the precipice is what the highest point of the Komi Republic is.
There is a glorious view from there. I wish the weather were more clear.
In fact mt Karpinskogo and mt Zashita are slightly lower.
Good to know, that at least on THIS issue somebody knowledgeable is of the same opinion. "you go along the saddle from the wooden cross in the opposite direction of the main summit, the saddle will smoothly rise a little bit and suddenly drop off into the deep gulf. The edge of the precipice is what the highest point of the Komi Republic is." PRECISELY so. Thank you, Natty 55555, for confirming this.
I like this advice: "Don't worry if you are arrested"! :)
---------------------
I like too. :)
Once I was arrested too by two angry men and a fisherman in the forest. They were sent to chase an escaped prisoner and took me for him. Actually they were scared more than I was. I would allegedly cut their heads off as we all had to sleep together in one hunter's hut. Next morning they already smiled at me. As it turned out in fact they didn't want to search for the prisoner and instead of the service catching fish together with their friend - fisherman.
However yet there are lots of prisoner camps in the remote areas. And it can be a bit dangerous. But yet the rivers, the forests and rocky cliffs are also dangerous. And you can feel yourself like a hiding partisan a bit :). Alas! It is Russia. It can't be helped.
I'm curious of the atlas you mentioned (»Republic Komi with a collection of maps in the scale of 1 : 500,000«). Is this a topographic atlas? What atlas is this? What is the ISBN? I found online a »Атлас почв Республики Коми« (ISBN: 978-5-7934-0315-3), but »почва« is soil, and browsing through a version I downloaded shows almost no maps. I also found »Атлас Республики Коми по климату и гидрологии« but that is about climate.
jfrishmanIII - Sep 6, 2010 5:31 pm - Voted 10/10
Quite the journey!Very interesting report on an area I've never seen pictures of! I didn't realize the Urals got that rugged. It sounds like quite an amazing expedition. thanks for posting!
EricChu - Sep 6, 2010 5:53 pm - Voted 10/10
Very good report as well!And you took gorgeous photos of this area! These two reports of yours I see as a valuable contribution here on SP, as the region you visit most certainly follows among the "rarities"!
Again greetings,
Eric
Dmitry Pruss - Sep 7, 2010 10:06 am - Voted 10/10
1927Although the name Narodnaya has been bestowed by Aleshkov's party in honor of the victorious revolutionary people, he took a strong hint from the old name of Naroda Creek at the peak's base.
The old name, Naroda Creek, may have been Komi or Mansi or even corrupted Russian in origin, but it most definitely didn't mean "Belonging to the People" then.
So the 1927 name was coined as a pun ... an inside joke almost ... one the one hand, "the peak of Naroda headwaters", but on the other had, "of the people". And to this day the geographers and the outdoorspeople argue which of the meanings should be right :)
Thanks for writing about my beloved Urals!
Natty55555 - Sep 15, 2013 1:11 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: 1927You are abslolutly right. In 1927 geologist Aleshkov named the peak in honor of the Soviet people (at 10th annivesory of the Great October Revolution) - Narodnaya (Nar'odnaya), but also by association with the name of Naroda (N'aroda) river. Therefore the name Naroda (N'aroda) for the peak is also legal. It was even used for 1 : 100,000 topographical map of the peak area - Q-41-97,98. Besides, there are often said N'arodnaya in Russia. Such the name was invented approx in 1958 and it is a bit ambiguous.
Nowadays there has been known even more old name of the peak - Poen-Urr by Mansi people. It was found in Hungarian scientist Antal Reguly's works who visited and explored the North Ural in 1843-1847 yrs.
Altitudes of quite a few of Ural peaks were very unaccurate for a long time - you can see them on plenty of different old maps and in literature.
Contemporary altitudes of the main Ural peaks on the topographical map 1 : 100,000 (fixed and produced in 1991) are definitly accurate : Naroda (Narodnaya) - 1895.0, Manaraga - 1663.5, Karpinskogo - 1803.4 and so on.
By the way in the past N'aroda river was spelled as N'oraty (in Antal Reguly's works).
Proterra - Sep 12, 2010 12:04 pm - Voted 10/10
I love reading trip reportsfrom folks venturing into obscure, remote areas. The only thing; I don't think I live in Asia, although my place of residence is a full 450 kilometres east of Vienna...
Wolfgang Schaub - Sep 15, 2010 4:58 am - Hasn't voted
Re: I love reading trip reportsAsia: I did not want to be offensive. What I meant, for example, is the gradual change in the way villages look like. A straight road, lined with green strips at both sides, walkways with ducks, one-storey houses, all looking very similar, babushki sitting in front on benches, chatting with each other. This picture you find from east of Vienna to Vladivostok.
Also: Along with the switch from a protestant/Roman catholic to an orthodox environment goes the increasiung intensity by which you are "controlled" by police, militia and security. The percentage of uniformed people versus "normal" ones is significantly higher. Uniformity is an Asian trait. In that sense Asia begins creeping in already in the Ukraine and Belarus. You are expected to travel in a group, not alone. Take the treatment at the border crossings as an indicator. The message is: you are not welcome, you are suspect.
Further east, Asiatic minorities mingle with ethnic Russians, and this in areas that are "normally" considered Europe: Take the Tatars, the Kalmyks, the Chechnians. The same if you take the Balkans: Kosovo and Albania are strikingly Turk to the eyes of the superficial tourist. Turkey is Asia.
All I am saying is: there is no distinct separation line between Europe and Asia, neither geographic, nor cultural, nor religious, nor social. And politically? Look into the Lisbon contract of the EU: You won't find a word of definition of what "Europe" is and is to be.
Caution: This comment needed to be short and to the point. A more differentiating comment would have been better.
yatsek - Sep 17, 2010 11:52 am - Voted 10/10
Re: I love reading trip reportsNo offence, but when it comes to accuracy: it's Hungary that lies east of Vienna. Hungary is part of Central Europe; east of Central Europe sits East Europe, which is still west of Asia. My father went to Vorkuta (although he didn't want to) and watched the Urals on the horizon for quite a while so I know best.:)
McCannster - Sep 12, 2010 4:05 pm - Voted 10/10
SweetYou always have the sweetest, most intriguing trip reports. Great job!
kamil - Sep 13, 2010 7:29 am - Voted 10/10
great adventureGreat adventure to the most obscure part of Europe. And a nice, very informative report. I always like your extraordinary adventures :)
cheers
k
Arthur Digbee - Sep 13, 2010 11:17 am - Voted 10/10
very interesting adventureI am curious about whether carrying detailed maps and a camera can get you in trouble with Russian security, however. I have heard some stories that they are sensitive.
Wolfgang Schaub - Sep 15, 2010 4:27 am - Hasn't voted
Re: very interesting adventureTrouble? Simple answer: yes and no. The trouble mainly is that you are frequently controlled as such. It may happen they carry you away to an "interview". Don't worry. Nothing will happen as long as you explain where you have the maps from (Russian sources, Internet), why you have a camera (hobby pictures only, show them). Most interested they are in GPS and they often ask if you have one. Yes of course. Show it to them. Show what you do with a GPS. Finally declare them your friends. Make drushba. No Russian can withstand that.
My explanation is that in remote areas of Russia people have never seen a tourist and cannot easily understand the concept of tourism. Be open, be polite, be cooperative. Avoid inviting trouble. Don't take pictures of uniformed persons, ask them for permission. Don't worry if you are arrested though. This is only transient and adds to your adventure. You will love Russia once you have experienced that.
SzaniUherkovich - Sep 16, 2010 6:34 am - Voted 10/10
Re: very interesting adventureI like this advice: "Don't worry if you are arrested"! :)
rpc - Sep 16, 2010 11:53 am - Voted 10/10
Re: very interesting adventureAnother great looking adventure & I do like your outlook on things here :)
Natty55555 - Sep 15, 2013 1:33 pm - Hasn't voted
Manaraha1820 m high for Manaraga is often mentioned in old litereture and maps (usually 2 km scale). The history is that certain tourists climbed onto the summit of Manaraga in 1954 and measured its height with barometer. Until 1990th a lot of other Ural peaks didn't had correct altitudes on public maps - perhaps on military purpose. Accurate maps were top secret documents.
Natty55555 - Sep 15, 2013 1:50 pm - Hasn't voted
highest point KomiAnd yeas the Naroda summit is actually in Asia.
Second summit (the north-west shoulder) of Naroda is the watershed and the highest point of the Komi republic. It is approx 1800-1820 m high. It is such a whim of the topoghraphy. You can look at http://natty55555.funpic.org by yourself.
Natty55555 - Sep 15, 2013 2:33 pm - Hasn't voted
the Komi highest point> Wolfgang Schaub sent the following message:
>
> Dear Natty55555,
>
> thank you for posting. Very nice to learn more about gora Naroda, its name and history.
>
> Still the question is unsolved for me, where EXACTLY is the highest point of the Komi-Republic? Certainly it is NOT the main summit, but somewhere on the north west shoulder. And how high is this point?
>
> Best regards,
You can see the highest point of Komi at the picture natty55555.funpic.org/prip37.jpg . It is on the right - about 500m from the main peak.
What high it is? I don't know exactly but it is higher than mt Karpinskogo 1803.4 m and mt Zashita 1808 m. Probably about 1820 m high.
You can see the Komi border on the map as well - natty55555.funpic.org/map.jpg
I was there and standed on the brink of a precipice. There was a beautiful view from there towards Mount Yanchenko 1740.9 m.
Natty55555 - Sep 15, 2013 4:36 pm - Hasn't voted
the Komi highest pointBeing a notorious highpoint collector I cannot omit, of course, the north west shoulder. I measure its height with GPS as 1821 – 1830 m and determine its coordinates with 65° 02.232'N 60° 06.121'O and claim without knowing better that this is the highest point of the Komi Republic. As expected, there is neither a triangulation post, nor a border marker. Towards W and S a face drops almost perpendicularly down into the valleys of the Manaraga – towards Europe – and the Naroda – towards Asia, respectively. At the same time I stand on the continental divide. 15 o'clock.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Wolfgang,
I don't think there is any doubt You were at the highest point of the Komi republic.
If you go along the saddle from the wooden cross in the opposite direction of the main summit, the saddle will smoothly rise a little bit and suddenly drop off into the deep gulf. The edge of the precipice is what the highest point of the Komi Republic is.
There is a glorious view from there. I wish the weather were more clear.
In fact mt Karpinskogo and mt Zashita are slightly lower.
Wolfgang Schaub - Sep 16, 2013 1:35 am - Hasn't voted
Re: the Komi highest pointGood to know, that at least on THIS issue somebody knowledgeable is of the same opinion. "you go along the saddle from the wooden cross in the opposite direction of the main summit, the saddle will smoothly rise a little bit and suddenly drop off into the deep gulf. The edge of the precipice is what the highest point of the Komi Republic is." PRECISELY so. Thank you, Natty 55555, for confirming this.
Natty55555 - Sep 15, 2013 5:20 pm - Hasn't voted
arrestI like this advice: "Don't worry if you are arrested"! :)
---------------------
I like too. :)
Once I was arrested too by two angry men and a fisherman in the forest. They were sent to chase an escaped prisoner and took me for him. Actually they were scared more than I was. I would allegedly cut their heads off as we all had to sleep together in one hunter's hut. Next morning they already smiled at me. As it turned out in fact they didn't want to search for the prisoner and instead of the service catching fish together with their friend - fisherman.
However yet there are lots of prisoner camps in the remote areas. And it can be a bit dangerous. But yet the rivers, the forests and rocky cliffs are also dangerous. And you can feel yourself like a hiding partisan a bit :). Alas! It is Russia. It can't be helped.
gerrit - Mar 10, 2019 4:11 am - Hasn't voted
AtlasHi!
Excellent post!
I'm curious of the atlas you mentioned (»Republic Komi with a collection of maps in the scale of 1 : 500,000«). Is this a topographic atlas? What atlas is this? What is the ISBN? I found online a »Атлас почв Республики Коми« (ISBN: 978-5-7934-0315-3), but »почва« is soil, and browsing through a version I downloaded shows almost no maps. I also found »Атлас Республики Коми по климату и гидрологии« but that is about climate.
Thanks, best regards, Gerrit.