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Angeles Crest - The Aftermath of the Station Fire

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Postby JasonH » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:31 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:Working in a construction zone, the last thing you want is live traffic coming through, especially when the area is signed and barricaded.


Word.

Construction is dangerous enough, without having to watch your back for idiots.
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Postby mrchad9 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:38 pm

Sean Kenney wrote:Sorry. I forgot that road closure signs are just stupid and wasting the time of the CHP is funny. Perhaps if they weren't morons they'd have checked road conditons before they wound up at a closed gate, low on fuel. It's bad enough on any given weekend with the idiots that think Hwy 2 is there personal race track. Yes, they're morons who came all the way from Vegas to ride a closed road. As for not hurting anyone...Perhaps not, but should one of these morons wreck, it will be the CHP, fire and sheriffs that have to pick the piece off the road at best.

Nailed harder? Yeah. Littering can get you $1000 fine. I think wasting the time of officers and ignoring posted highway signs is a bargin at $200.

Treating the road like a race track is one thing, completely different than what these folks did. I wouldn't have been surprised by calling folks like that morons. These folks were doing nothing of the sort.

If they wreck, the CHP, fire, and sheriffs have to pick up the pieces whether the road is closed or not, so don't see what that has to do with it. You can bet these folks were driving much more carefully as it was than if they were on a open road. The risk of a wreck likely was lower than normal.

As for wasting the time of the CHP, that is not possible. All they do is sit around and give out tickets. It's not as though this fellow was a homicide detective. He either would have been taking a nap in his car or ticketing someone else, so no loss.

Gary Schenk wrote:The foreman knew there was a CHP officer waiting for them because probably he called them in. Working in a construction zone, the last thing you want is live traffic coming through, especially when the area is signed and barricaded. The CHP is pretty serious about that. And having worked on freeways and highways, I can tell you for sure the guys working there are serious about it, too.

If those guys had an accident, they would have sued the state, you can bet. And they would have won, no doubt, on the grounds that the barricades were not good enough to keep them out.

Fines are doubled in construction zones.

Interesting idea that the foreman might have called them in. Entirely possible, though I don't know why he would have told them about them waiting. Possible, but I suspect he just knew they were there.

That they would have sued the state, much less won, doesn't make any sense. Using that logic anyone who wrecks on a dirt road could sue the state for it not being paved. Would not happen.

NOTE: I am not saying it is OK to do what they did. I just think calling them morons and expecting some severe punishment is a but excessive. They deserved a ticket and they got it, seems about right to me. Though if the workers were not present I don't think a ticket would have been deserved- just my opinion there.
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Postby mrchad9 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:44 pm

Luciano136 wrote:
Gary Schenk wrote:If those guys had an accident, they would have sued the state, you can bet. And they would have won, no doubt, on the grounds that the barricades were not good enough to keep them out.


That's the biggest joke I ever heard! You trespass and can sue, wtf?! Sweet, so this weekend, I'll go ride my bike on ACH, run off the side and collect some money LOL

I'm looking forward to some shenanigans myself where roadwork is being done on I-580 nearby. I'm tired of the state not giving me money.
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Postby Luciano136 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:50 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:
Luciano136 wrote:
Gary Schenk wrote:If those guys had an accident, they would have sued the state, you can bet. And they would have won, no doubt, on the grounds that the barricades were not good enough to keep them out.


That's the biggest joke I ever heard! You trespass and can sue, wtf?! Sweet, so this weekend, I'll go ride my bike on ACH, run off the side and collect some money LOL


You wouldn't believe the people that have won awards against the state and on grounds shakier than that.


Granted there are some crazy cases out there, I doubt these guys would win since there is clear evidence they fully knew the road was closed (there's even picture evidence online). Now, if there was a big hole in the road that was not marked and you ride in it, then I could see suing the state might work.
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Postby mrchad9 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:53 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:
mrchad9 wrote:
Luciano136 wrote:
Gary Schenk wrote:If those guys had an accident, they would have sued the state, you can bet. And they would have won, no doubt, on the grounds that the barricades were not good enough to keep them out.


That's the biggest joke I ever heard! You trespass and can sue, wtf?! Sweet, so this weekend, I'll go ride my bike on ACH, run off the side and collect some money LOL

I'm looking forward to some shenanigans myself where roadwork is being done on I-580 nearby. I'm tired of the state not giving me money.


I came close to being killed on I-5 by drunk driving through a closure one night. I did not find it amusing. Unfortunately for him, neither did the CHP.

An unfortunate occurance, that luckily ended the way it did. But again, nothing remotely close to what these fellows did.
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Postby fatdad » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:53 pm

Luciano136 wrote:
Gary Schenk wrote:If those guys had an accident, they would have sued the state, you can bet. And they would have won, no doubt, on the grounds that the barricades were not good enough to keep them out.


That's the biggest joke I ever heard! You trespass and can sue, wtf?! Sweet, so this weekend, I'll go ride my bike on ACH, run off the side and collect some money LOL


I find that contention doubtful. Under different circumstances, there may be a failure to maintain claim or failure to warn, but not where someone's gone around a clearly marked barrier.

People have odd notions of what you can and can't successfully litigate.
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Postby Augie Medina » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:40 am

fatdad wrote:
Luciano136 wrote:
Gary Schenk wrote:If those guys had an accident, they would have sued the state, you can bet. And they would have won, no doubt, on the grounds that the barricades were not good enough to keep them out.


That's the biggest joke I ever heard! You trespass and can sue, wtf?! Sweet, so this weekend, I'll go ride my bike on ACH, run off the side and collect some money LOL


I find that contention doubtful. Under different circumstances, there may be a failure to maintain claim or failure to warn, but not where someone's gone around a clearly marked barrier.


Agree.

Bruno, it isn't as easy as people are often led to believe. Sometimes, a defendant will settle a very weak claim for a nuisance value just to avoid the costs of lengthy litigation. I would imagine CalTrans has done this at times, although I also suspect that is not its general practice. Otherwise, generally speaking, it is not easy to prosecute a claim in the courts, even a good claim, win a big judgment, protect the judgment on appeal, and then finally collect on that judgment.

You sometimes read in the papers about a multimillion dollar verdict that someone has just won. But you never hear about the verdict getting appealed, and the appellate court either reversing the verdict or else reducing the amount of the judgment considerably.
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Postby Luciano136 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:55 am

Mountain Impulse wrote:You sometimes read in the papers about a multimillion dollar verdict that someone has just won. But you never hear about the verdict getting appealed, and the appellate court either reversing the verdict or else reducing the amount of the judgment considerably.


That's what I figured. Only sensation sells...
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Postby mrchad9 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:49 pm

TacoDelRio wrote:I see more similarities than differences between Motorcyclists and Mountaineers.

Drivers/riders, climbers, and bicyclists always seem to hate each other. We're all the same.

Not that I've been heavily involved in all those three worlds or anything.

I've done hiking and bicycling. Whenever doing one you can see why the other is truely the most despicable.
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Postby Augie Medina » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:42 am

mrchad9 wrote:
I've done hiking and bicycling. Whenever doing one you can see why the other is truely the most despicable.


How true. I love mountain biking but the first time I was hiking up a trail and a biker came barreling around a blind corner at warp speed and almost hit me, besides yelling at him to learn how use the trail I was thinking "f###ing mountain bikers."
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Postby Ze » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:58 am

TacoDelRio wrote:
"Hey, that asshole on the bicycle is in the middle of the road!"
"Hey, that asshole in his car is crossing the double yellows!"

:wink:


1st - legal
2nd - illegal
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Postby Ze » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:02 am

mrchad9 wrote:I've done hiking and bicycling. Whenever doing one you can see why the other is truely the most despicable.


i road cycle so not really interaction with hikers. i find a decent % cyclists to be douchebags. i'm sure they are fine people in person, but behavior on a bike is pretty bad.

hikers can also be incompetent, but I don't see as many things from them that make me think, 'what the hell are you doing' when I'm on a trail.

mountain bikers I don't see much. if I do and they don't cede way on the trail, I give them a stiff shoulder and knock them on their ass.
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Postby mrchad9 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:55 pm

Ze wrote:hikers can also be incompetent, but I don't see as many things from them that make me think, 'what the hell are you doing' when I'm on a trail.

You didn't see this then!!!

Image

Photo from Vitaliy M
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