Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Desert clothing?

Post climbing gear-related questions, offer advice. For classifieds, please use that forum.
 

Postby granite4brains » Wed May 05, 2010 6:51 pm

I found a system that works best for me in warm desert temperatures. I start out with the really light weight long-sleeve capilene shirt by patagonia as my base and have a cotton short sleeve t-shirt over that. it's usually cooler in the morning and this starts out great. As the day gets warmer, I'll end up just in the cotton t-shirt which helps keep you cool, especially as you sweat a little. But, inevitably as you gain altitude and that cool breeze comes along as you top out, suddenly that t-shirt ain't so warm, you just get the capilene base layer back on with the t-shirt back on top. Works great!

In case there might be some especially cool temperatures in early morning, late day, I carry a wind stopper jacket of some sort too and a warm hat and gloves. Spring and Fall in the desert can have days as hot as heck in the middle of the day, but some pretty darn cool temps other times especially in high desert or at altitude.
User Avatar
granite4brains

 
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:53 am
Location: Ridgecrest, CA, United States
Thanked: 11 times in 9 posts

Postby Yeti » Wed May 05, 2010 7:02 pm

I phrased the question specifically for this forum, in terms that most would understand. ;) This isn't a boating forum, so I asked for advise on warm/dry places. Thanks for all that helped!


On to this fun argument!
MikeTX wrote:how silly. it seems the argument being put forward is that as far as clothes go, canoe trip in the midwest=hiking in the desert. really? whatever.


And there's the mistake. This isn't a river or inland lake "in the mid west". This is a large body of cool water up on the 45th parallel. Your air masses don't all come from Ohio and Wisconsin, they come from Canada as well.

Thanks for the visual Day Hiker, I was actually on the lake that day. I've only be going up there for 29 years, thanks for the sage wisoms. I've been where I'm going many times, I've spent dawn-dusk out there (but not 48+ hours), I know what conditions I'm preparing for (and I've been punished with sunburns, and a freind had a flirt with dehydration and sunstroke on our maiden trip). Note the disparity in tempuratures in deep vs shallow water, the temps corilate almost identically with the soundings.
If the winds are coming from Geogian Bay, what will the weather be like? If there is no wind, what will it be like? What happens to the moisture in warm air as it moves over something cold? Are you familiar with the term "microclimate" and how it relates to the surface of large bodies of water? Ever use a dehumidifier? No? Then tell me more about large-scale mean atmospheric conditions.
User Avatar
Yeti

 
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
Thanked: 8 times in 8 posts

Postby Day Hiker » Wed May 05, 2010 7:29 pm

Yeti wrote:If the winds are coming from Geogian Bay, what will the weather be like? If there is no wind, what will it be like? What happens to the moisture in warm air as it moves over something cold?


Cold? Where do you see cold?

Image

Upper 60s may be cold water for swimming, but it is certainly not a low temperature in regards to dewpoint. That "cold" 68F water cannot by any means lower the dewpoint of the air it contacts below 68F. No way no how. More likely, the air will have a dewpoint below 68F before it is over Huron, and the water will only increase that value as the air sits over it.

In August, you're not going to find any dewpoints that would qualify as "low humidity" anywhere East of the Mississippi and south of James Bay. Maybe a cold front comes out of Canada and drops the dewpoint into the 50s for a couple of days, but that's still not exactly "desert dry." And as it moves over the 68F lake, that air's moisture content can only INCREASE. There is nothing magical or mysterious about Lake Huron that would allow it to break such a basic principle of science.

And not that it's relevant to this discussion, but yes, Michigan IS considered part of the Midwest, by the way.
User Avatar
Day Hiker

 
Posts: 3156
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:57 am
Location: Henderson, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 61 times in 43 posts

Postby Yeti » Wed May 05, 2010 8:12 pm

Arguing on the internet at it's finest; post after post of nothing but semantics:

Day Hiker wrote:Cold? Where do you see cold?
Michigan IS considered part of the Midwest.

Cold is a relative term, in this case it relates to air and water. 68f is colder than 80f, and summer temps can hit 90+. So, when "relatively hot" air passes over a "relatively cold" surface, what happens to it's moisture content?

Now, imagine the dewpoint in the lower 40s... wait that's not imaginary, that's average. It can , in extreme cases, be in the lower 30s in August.

But then again, I don't care. I'm not making up stuff to prove to the internet that I know middleschool science. I'm trying to describe conditions that I have actually observed.... and that wasn't th epoint of the original post, so I'm done. Thanks thread!
User Avatar
Yeti

 
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
Thanked: 8 times in 8 posts

Postby Dow Williams » Wed May 05, 2010 8:19 pm

About as valuable as this thread, but you gear experts will have to try harder to be as entertaining.
User Avatar
Dow Williams

 
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Utah and Canadian Rockies
Thanked: 219 times in 101 posts

Postby Day Hiker » Wed May 05, 2010 8:28 pm

Yeti wrote:
Day Hiker wrote:Cold? Where do you see cold?

Cold is a relative term, in this case it relates to air and water.

Yes, "cold" is a relative term, but a dewpoint in the 60s would NEVER BE considered "low humidity" in terms of what one would experience in the desert, which is relevant to the original question in this thread.

Yeti wrote:So, when "relatively hot" air passes over a "relatively cold" surface, what happens to it's moisture content?

If the dewpoint of the air is lower than the temperature of the surface, absolutely nothing happens to the moisture content. If the surface happens to be water, the moisture content will be increased.

If the dewpoint of the air is higher than the temperature of the surface, moisture will condense on that surface (or the air would cool and moisture would condense into fog or precipitate out), and the dewpoint will be lowered, but in no case can it possibly be lowered below the temperature of the surface.

Yeti wrote:Now, imagine the dewpoint in the lower 40s... wait that's not imaginary, that's average.

I would like to see any source that shows that the AVERAGE dewpoint over central-western Lake Huron is in the lower 40s IN AUGUST, the most-humid month of the year. That's pure comedy.
Last edited by Day Hiker on Wed May 05, 2010 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
Day Hiker

 
Posts: 3156
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:57 am
Location: Henderson, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 61 times in 43 posts

Postby MoapaPk » Wed May 05, 2010 8:39 pm

User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 735 times in 474 posts

Postby norco17 » Wed May 05, 2010 8:43 pm

Dow Williams wrote:About as valuable as this thread, but you gear experts will have to try harder to be as entertaining.


Thanks for posting dow :lol:
User Avatar
norco17

 
Posts: 817
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:53 am
Location: riverside, California, United States
Thanked: 162 times in 105 posts

Postby Dow Williams » Thu May 06, 2010 1:00 am

actually that looks more like the UPS man delivering all the cams I see advertised on this site that state unequivocally "never touched rock" or "used only once"
User Avatar
Dow Williams

 
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Utah and Canadian Rockies
Thanked: 219 times in 101 posts

Postby Yeti » Thu May 06, 2010 1:59 am

Day Hiker wrote: Image


I cannot compete with your dedication.

BTW, the dew point on the day of those surface temps you posted... 42f. That month it hit a high at 72, and a low of 37. Find an archive.
Last edited by Yeti on Thu May 06, 2010 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
Yeti

 
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
Thanked: 8 times in 8 posts

Postby Yeti » Thu May 06, 2010 3:25 am

MikeTX wrote:wow, three pages and we're still trying to equate deserts with the great lakes. let me help ya out. if you look around and you see lots of water and greenery, there's a pretty good chance that you're not in the desert.
True, though there's no greenery out there (just a strip on the horizon), there is *a bit* of potable water. :lol:
User Avatar
Yeti

 
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
Thanked: 8 times in 8 posts

Postby MoapaPk » Thu May 06, 2010 3:31 am

MikeTX wrote:wow, three pages and we're still trying to equate deserts with the great lakes. let me help ya out. if you look around and you see lots of water and greenery, there's a pretty good chance that you're not in the desert.


Ever been to Lake Mead? It's a big artificial lake in the desert, and when the hot wind blows on a summer day, the air quite near the surface is well below saturation. We also have a few natural lakes in the desert (Mono comes close, as does Walker).

Ever been down by Las Cruces? The desert there seems very green.
User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 735 times in 474 posts

PreviousNext

Return to Gear

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.