Not really a question directly related to mountaineering but thought I’d fire away as a bunch of you seem to have some good insights regarding exercise.

I’m a bit of a fitness freak so like to do a fair bit of exercise, pretty much mainly cardio (running, riding, kayaking). In the past I considered myself an endurance person having done the usual longer stuff (marathons/half ironmans/ultra trailruns, adventure races etc).

Recently I find myself running out training time due to kids, working too much and the like so recently decided to run and ride a pushy to work to save time sitting in traffic/public transport and exchange it with training/exercise time, alternating riding one way and running the other. I’m only living 10ks from work (so not covering big distances) but find my legs struggle a bit. 60ks a week on the bike is negligible but I figure it’s probably the 60ks a week running (10ks daily over 6 consecutive days) which is taking its toll. As I’m strapped for time I am pushing pretty hard over this distance (also as I am training for a shortish distance race – 14km)

I know it’s generally advised to alternate daily exercise routines (give certain muscles rest), but does this routine sound bad for my body? Legs are not struggling too much (no chronic pain or things like that) but just some minor general soreness/stiffness during the day and especially when back on the legs for the next run.

I’ve only been doing this for a couple of months so maybe my body will condition itself over time but was just wondering other people’s opinion……

Cheers
Paul

I had a supervisor who was an incredible athlete; mountain climbing, running, long distance cycling, triathlons, competitive sailing and he was in his 60s at the time and competing favorably with guys in their 20s and 30s. He was also a smart guy with a Ph.D. in the sciences. He explained it to me in this way "You don't get strong when you are working out. You get strong when you are resting."

In other words, you have to schedule in rest days, which can be active rest days, but you need to rest to allow the muscles to rebuild and minor injuries to heal before they become major injuries. I have discovered this to be especially true as I am getting older. Even though your running and cycling mileage is still very moderate, you are not allowing your body to heal in between. Maybe consider running and cycling every other day and doing upper body resistance workouts on the alternate day.

I also think you don't need to cycle and run on the same day. Better to mix in some resistance. I do three running workouts a week - long slow distance, tempo run, and hill repeats with upper body and core resistance workouts on alternate days with a couple of evening bouldering sessions a week. On the weekends I do long, hard trail runs in the mountains, go alpine climbing, ski mountaineering, rock climbing, ice climbing etc. If I am planning a multi day climb/trip over the weekend, I take it easy on Friday to make sure I am rested. At age 45 I have found this routine to give enough training to climb, run, and ski at the level I want to with enough rest to avoid fatigue and overuse injuries

ExcitableBoy's Ph.D. friend has a valid point. Although your efforts are admirable in exercising to the degree you are each day, you'll cause more harm than good without taking those breaks.

To assist with your running/ biking, do upper body and arm workouts. Although it seems counter intuitive your body needs balance. When training my youth and students we make sure to focus on muscle groups that aren't as heavily used in climbing (which is why I run) to create that muscle balance within the body. Want a stronger core? Work your back. Stronger legs (for running)? Work your arms and shoulders. Etc.

Read 'Training for the New Alpinism' by Steve House and Scott Johnston. Good book with a ton of info, pics, stories and excellent training for climbers and any athlete. Stress the body, rest the body...

Yea, personally I wouldn't do the same exercise type every day, certainly not for multiple weeks in a row. If you are describing it yourself as 'struggling a bit' thats much better information than anything we can tell you online about what does and doesn't work for your particular body, but, is it getting easier or harder? Do you find yourself dreading the trips or looking forward to them? Are you dragging yourself out of bed in the morning or sleeping through your alarm clocks or finding it hard to sleep at all? Those are all signs you're doing too much for your body.

I can also highly recommend the same book, I have it and read it and use it to plan my training. It has good information about what is going on in your body during working and resting phases, how to dial in the right time and distances for you, and what to look out for to see if you are doing too much.

Maybe bike more run less.

I think ExcitableBoy said it best. You need to rest to avoid over-use injuries and burn out. Also, make sure your diet/calorie intake is sufficient to fuel your exercise. And you need some strength training too. If anything, strength training may be more beneficial to you than biking or running everyday.

All good tips above, especially the periodization concepts discussed by EB. If you are like me, it takes a lot of discipline to back off and truly go easy on days that should be easy (based on how I am feeling and/or based on general periodization concepts). Sometimes it is better to take a day off if I don't have the time or discipline to go slow. With kids and a typical Mon-Fri schedule, I too find cycling for transportation to be a good way to stay fit. I usually tow 50-130 lbs. in kids and trailer behind me, so I really have to limit fast riding or detours into the hills to avoid overuse. I avoid doing hard rides two days in a row and sometimes need to limit hard rides to once a week with an occassional week off. I avoid strenuous cycling on Fridays and Mondays if the weekend will have a long, strenuous trail run. On weekends I do a long, strenuous hike, or one mountainous trail run. Sometimes I substitute or add a day of short interval or tempo running depending on time and how I feel.

As for strength training, I used to do a lot of heavy weightlifting, and have a decent base built up with that. With time short this year, once or twice a week I take the kids to a park and do lots of pull-ups, chin-ups, dips, push-ups, pistol squats, box jumps, core exercises, and similar body weight exercises at the end of a cycling/running warm-up. Most of these are easy to do at home, at work, or almost anywhere. Maybe my kids will continue to cycle around, excercise at parks, etc. when they are adults with me modeling the behavior (it is unusual behavior for an adult where I frequent).

Personally, I'm looking forward to changing up my routine for the summer by adding swimming and having more time to run and hike with less need to tow kids around behind my bike. As long as I don't overdo it, changing things up ought to lead to some fitness and strength gains.

One more thought I don't see specifically mentioned yet is to make time to massage sore spots and areas with foam rollers, tennis balls, etc. It is not a substitute for running less frequently, but can really help you stay feeling good and ready to excercise.

Everyone is different and has different life schedules, but...Less is more.

Keep your easy days easy, and make your hard days hard.

Tendons take 48 hrs to recover their steady-state viscoelastic properties after hard exercise.

Protein synthesis in muscles is elevated for more than 24 hours after a solid resistance routine.

Oxidative capacity does not need stimulus every day to increase.

Over time, its amazing what conditioning you can obtain and sustain on lower frequency training. 3-4 days a week can get you high levels of strength and endurance easily. And is a much more sustainable plan over the long term.

I'm planning on doing a long cycling race (Death Ride) in a month, based practically on 2 days a week of cycling (and one of those isn't even outside). I agree with ExcitableBoy that you should vary the intensity btw workouts for a more robust endurance capacity.

I second Sean's comments on foam rolling and tennis balling. These help heal / maintain minor tweaks. (P.S. Sean do you ever run up Black Mtn?)

^^^Ze, Listing those numbers is helpful as I think about altering routines for summer. Specific activities and areas of focus change over time, but by pretty much following what is described above, I have never had to take a break from an activity due to overuse injury. At the same time, almost any hike or ride always seems within reach or could quickly be within reach by ramping back up to the higher end of those parameters if I have fallen a bit below the low end for a period of time.

Ze wrote:(P.S. Sean do you ever run up Black Mtn?)

No, but I've heard of it. My go to spots are Mt. Madonna, Coyote Lake, Uvas Canyon, and Henry Coe. I've been living on the edge of the Garlic capital for over a dozen years, and I tend to stick to the multitude of spots 10-30 minutes from my house. Tons of great rides, runs, and hikes from San Jose north in the Bay Area are on my radar, but so far when I commit to longer drives within CA I usually end up heading to the Sierra, Trinities, Cascades, Death Valley, Pinnacles area, or Ventana area. I figure I avoid traffic, crowds, fees, and restrictions more easily that way. Maybe when my kids are older I'll start tackling every peak around like Bob Burd. That reminds me of something; while laying around recovering from ankle surgery last summer, I think I recall reading that you messed up your ankle pretty badly during the Sierra Challenge. I guess we are both near full recovery. A necessary shift from hiking, running, and heavy free weights to cycling and body weight excercises played a large role in my early to middle stages of rehab.

Ah I keep forgetting how big Santa Clara county is, was thinking of the northern end. Love the "Shortcut" fire rd up to Blue ridge & Mt Sizer. Have to check out Uvas Canyon, that seems like it could be a good workout.

Ankle is good, thanks for asking. Was in a boot for a month, then started cycling too quickly and ended up with some hip overuse. Gradually started hiking then running - it's pretty good now but the range of motion still needs to improve. What did you need surgery on specifically?

Mountain Bandit,
How much running is too much?
You ask a really interesting question and it lends itself to huge discussion.. I don't know if there's really an "easy" answer. The short answer (and the answer I always hate) is: it depends on the person. Today's ultra runners are doing some really remarkable things relative to weekly and monthly long distance volumes, injury reduction protocols and productive running over the course of years (and decades) in their lives. I think a lot of it comes down to genetics, runner self care and trying to find some peace or balance with the mental addiction. The addiction piece seems to be hardest variable to control.

You specifically mentioned soreness/stiffness as a present concern. You sound like a fairly experienced endurance athlete so please forgive if any (or all of this) is old hat:

Some soreness factors are:
athlete genetics
prior injury history
recovery protocols like stretching, rolling, icing/ ice baths
pre-run hydration and fueling states
post run nutritional fueling recovery (protein intake, hydration, etc)
running gait/stride mechanics
worn out running shoes
runner muscle flexibility/tightness
terrain you are running on, road/trail, road camber, slope, technical single track, etc
poor periodization (a huge discussion)
possible electrolyte imbalance

FWIW, this is what I have found to reduce soreness when running/training for longer distances:
* proper hydration prior to the long runs (hydration intake monitoring a few days before big runs, also try to reduce caffeine intake to make this hydration period most effective). AKA, Go in hydrated and stay hydrated.
* Use of good compression socks for about 24 hours after the run.
* DEDICATED and CONSISTENT Stretching and rolling routines
* weekly pilates or yoga (2-3 times a week is best). I do yoga for stretching and breathing discipline, pilates for core strength.
* use of newer shoes for big runs and events
* use of massage therapy after big training runs and about 2 days after a big event. This can be expensive, but it's well worth the price
* I also self massage legs and feet during course of training. I will use Arnica gel at times as a substitute massage lotion.
http://www.amazon.com/Boiron-Arnicare-A ... B00EEEFUZI

Another thought might be the use of a natural anti-inflammatory to help reduce soreness. I started taking Jarrow Formulas Curcumin 95, several months ago. My soreness has decreased, but I also started a Physical Therapy regiment, so it's a little hard to isolate the curcumin affect (if any).
http://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-C ... B0013OVSUS

Other possible natural ant-inflammatory supplementation might include daily intake of a quality fish oil and possibly tart cherry juice.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/24160 ... rry-juice/

If you aren't using these items already, these are some items that will help with the stretching/leg care:
Black, higher density foam roller. I say go with the higher density, it hurts more, but it seems more effective
http://www.amazon.com/Black-High-Densit ... B0026HYWRW

Tiger Tail Rolling Muscle Massager
http://www.amazon.com/Tiger-Tail-Rollin ... B000FE82QU
Thera-Cane
http://www.amazon.com/Thera-Cane-JMAS50 ... B000PRMCJU

baseballs and softballs for hip and gluteus self massage work

FWIW, I've also broken up my running into seasons. That is, for part of the year I'll focus intensely on running, then move over to the bike for a few months, and then break it up with swimming (oh! and climbing) as well. I don't eliminate running year round. I just limit the intensity and volume of running throughout the course of the year (i.e., smaller, shorter runs). This gives the legs rest from intense and year-round use/abuse. The thought is always for the long-haul, sustainable, running health.

Also I've never tried this, but Hammer Nutrition claims that one can naturally elevate Human Growth Hormone with Whey Protein Isolate (note: HN's WPI contains added L-Glutamine):
Elevating Human Growth Hormone Levels with Whey
http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... og-section

Here's another thought: if you have health insurance and your health plan covers it (or you have a doctor or radiology tech friend), consider getting a MRI or x ray of your knees. I have luckily faced very few running injuries, but I have had the occasional knee issues (minor and manageable). I was able to get an x ray in of one knee and an MRI of another and both images helped alleviate background fears that I have been "destroying" my knees.
After 25 years of amateur and recreational running, my images looked pretty good and showed that I had minimal damage/knee wear. The point? I can go forward with less worry that my running is doing me any short term knee damage (though I know that nothing is ever guaranteed). Clinical Imaging may allow you to more rationally manage expectations about what your legs can endure (and deliver) over the course of your running life. Having this type of imaging might be worthwhile for you to lessen anxiety now or in the future. Just a thought.

While all of the above doesn't answer the question of how much is too much?, at least it may allow you to recover quicker (or more accurately: feel better), so that you can get out there more, feed your rat, and feel less worried about potential (and permanent) long-term damage.

Rest and recovery, as mentioned by other SP contributors, is greatly important. Also a major topic and one that is grounds for a huge discussion. In my experience the main nemesis to rest and recovery is the mind addiction. Getting a handle on that one is each distance runner's "cross to bear." Remember this one?: I'm only as good as my next climb [long run]. Once you control the run addiction, the consistent and proper utilization of the other factors of runner self care becomes much easier.

FWIW, Here's a recent little ditty from a recent Ben Greenfield podcast. BG talks about general muscle recovery in weightlifting, but I think his observations on muscle repair and neuro-muscular system impact are equally applicable to sore legs from running.
Should you exercise your chest every day
Time start 38.50 to end time 45.50
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/201 ... much-more/

Lastly, a couple of quick book recommends:
If you run into (no pun intended) any feet issues, this book is highly regarded:
Fixing Your Feet: Prevention and Treatments for Athletes by John Vonhof
http://www.amazon.com/Fixing-Your-Feet- ... 0899976387

Also, not really rated to clinical issues, but probably the best book on running I've ever read. It's a fantastic book with TONS of wisdom and insight for the lifetime runner to reflect upon. Every runner will intuitively relate to this book. There's something in it for everybody (including climbers! read: obsession, dedication, relentless drive forward, etc.). It's also available free to Amazon Prime Members (principle account holder) as part of the Kindle Lending Library.

Run Gently Out There: Trials, trails, and tribulations of running ultramarathons
http://www.amazon.com/Run-Gently-Out-Th ... 1490387552

Good luck Mountain Bandit!
Fortitudine vincimus,
JM

P.S. Ze, good luck down there in Markleville. I'll be out on the course too..