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Elitism

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Elitism

Postby Roy1 » Fri May 14, 2010 6:42 pm

Dougb thankyou. Now that someone has proven my point, I'll make this last comment and then forget about. Doug, do you remember when 5.8 seemed intimidating and looked to 5.10/5.11 wondering how you'll ever get there. You can deny it and lie to yourself, but you were there.

As for those with the constructive advice to not worry about this issue, thanks. I can now put this issue to bed and continue to enjoy the outdoors. Cheers talk later.
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Re: Elitism

Postby welle » Fri May 14, 2010 6:51 pm

Roy1 wrote:Dougb thankyou. Now that someone has proven my point, I'll make this last comment and then forget about. Doug, do you remember when 5.8 seemed intimidating and looked to 5.10/5.11 wondering how you'll ever get there. You can deny it and lie to yourself, but you were there.

As for those with the constructive advice to not worry about this issue, thanks. I can now put this issue to bed and continue to enjoy the outdoors. Cheers talk later.


sarcasm radar is a bit off, eh?
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Re: Elitism

Postby JasonH » Fri May 14, 2010 6:55 pm

welle wrote:
Roy1 wrote:Dougb thankyou. Now that someone has proven my point, I'll make this last comment and then forget about. Doug, do you remember when 5.8 seemed intimidating and looked to 5.10/5.11 wondering how you'll ever get there. You can deny it and lie to yourself, but you were there.

As for those with the constructive advice to not worry about this issue, thanks. I can now put this issue to bed and continue to enjoy the outdoors. Cheers talk later.


sarcasm radar is a bit off, isn't it?


Sarcasm radars don't work as well on the interwebs. I recommend upgrading to Sarcasm Radar 2.0.
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Postby phlipdascrip » Fri May 14, 2010 6:58 pm

rofl :D

Roy you'll see plenty of sarcasm around here, better get used to it ;)
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Re: Elitism

Postby welle » Fri May 14, 2010 11:44 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:
Dougb wrote:
Roy1 wrote:Dougb thankyou. Now that someone has proven my point, I'll make this last comment and then forget about. Doug, do you remember when 5.8 seemed intimidating and looked to 5.10/5.11 wondering how you'll ever get there. You can deny it and lie to yourself, but you were there.

As for those with the constructive advice to not worry about this issue, thanks. I can now put this issue to bed and continue to enjoy the outdoors. Cheers talk later.


No, 5.8 was never intimidating, that's called 5.easy my friend. Although I was soloing 5.8 once in a downpour and had to actually think about what I was doing once. I adjusted my flip flops and topped out then decided to take the trail down.


Weak!


+1

Too soft, Doug! 5.10s are the lines of descent unroped: http://ht.ly/1L7Kc
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Postby dien2liv » Sun May 23, 2010 8:09 pm

Elitism: so im at the crag in NW Arkansas last weekend. just got my first set of cams and I think this was the second time using them (not the first time trad climbing) so they were nice and shinny. as we were leaving, we pass a group guys from Fayetteville working some 5.12. we stopped to watch as this guy flashed the route and came down. I complimented him on the climb and so on and he replied back about how shinny my cams were and just generally made us feel unwelcome. Then his friend asked us where we were from. when they realized we were from Missouri, they proceeded to tell us how missouri climbers cause all kinds of problems with access and trespassing issues. im no 5.12 climber but i love climbing and what should it matter where im from and how strong I am. Never felt like climbing could be elitist until then.
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Postby ksolem » Sun May 23, 2010 9:55 pm

...and he replied back about how shiny my cams were and just generally made us feel unwelcome.


My standard retort for that one is: "Listen, dumbass, I wear out three racks every year and send the worn out junk back to the manufacturer for testing, and they send me new stuff for free. If that old stuff of yours still works then obviously you don't get out climbing enough."

(I actually saw local Josh guide Dave Mayville drop that line on a guy once. It pretty much cut him down to size, which is of course what Dave loves to do.)

edit: PS, If the guy had to work on the route before he could climb it, it wasn't a "flash." If you run into him again under similar circumstances instead of complimenting him, tell him "it's a bummer you didn't get it first try for the flash..." :wink:
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Postby CClaude » Mon May 24, 2010 3:01 pm

dien2liv wrote:Elitism: so im at the crag in NW Arkansas last weekend. just got my first set of cams and I think this was the second time using them (not the first time trad climbing) so they were nice and shinny. as we were leaving, we pass a group guys from Fayetteville working some 5.12. we stopped to watch as this guy flashed the route and came down. I complimented him on the climb and so on and he replied back about how shinny my cams were and just generally made us feel unwelcome. Then his friend asked us where we were from. when they realized we were from Missouri, they proceeded to tell us how missouri climbers cause all kinds of problems with access and trespassing issues. im no 5.12 climber but i love climbing and what should it matter where im from and how strong I am. Never felt like climbing could be elitist until then.


And that is too bad. My climbing partner and I were talking yesterday, and part of the conversation was about ability. We both commented on that we don't care if you climb 5.5 or if you climb 5.14 if:

a) weren't an ass about it to others

b) you were trying and didn't give up. If you are trying then you are learning something and that is the spirit of climbing. Something the 5.12 dumb#ss above failed to understand.
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Postby The Chief » Mon May 24, 2010 3:17 pm

Here's a thought and very simple solution to all this...

Find crags where you will be the only ones around and having fun.

Simple, no elitism to invade your quiet serenity.

Avoid crags with crowds and you avoid any encounters with jerkoff's.

End of story.
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Postby peladoboton » Mon May 24, 2010 5:19 pm

dien2liv wrote:Elitism: so im at the crag in NW Arkansas last weekend. just got my first set of cams and I think this was the second time using them (not the first time trad climbing) so they were nice and shinny. as we were leaving, we pass a group guys from Fayetteville working some 5.12. we stopped to watch as this guy flashed the route and came down. I complimented him on the climb and so on and he replied back about how shinny my cams were and just generally made us feel unwelcome. Then his friend asked us where we were from. when they realized we were from Missouri, they proceeded to tell us how missouri climbers cause all kinds of problems with access and trespassing issues. im no 5.12 climber but i love climbing and what should it matter where im from and how strong I am. Never felt like climbing could be elitist until then.


my buddies i was climbing with this last weekend off of the Ruth Glacier bumped into Fred Betke in his camp in front of Mt Dickey. he, the most accomplished climber in North America, was excited as heck to talk with them, and gave them all sorts of props and encouragement.

that is how the game is to be played, as played by one of the great masters, says i.
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Postby fatdad » Mon May 24, 2010 7:06 pm

Maybe this was raised already (after 9 pages it can be hard to tell), but don't confuse someone you perceive as elitism vs. someone who is just a tool.

To be honest, the elistism issue is getting raised pretty frequently nowadays and it's hard to tell whether it's code for someone who doesn't like receiving any comments about how they climb, belay, etc., vs. someone who's had the poor luck of bumping into someone who's just a big mouthed jerk.

If the person's a jerk, why complain about it? Some people are cool and some people are jerks. That's a pretty well accepted fact. Sadly, climbing does not have a membership requirement that everyone be nice.
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Postby peladoboton » Mon May 24, 2010 7:19 pm

i agree. Messner is probably one of the cokiest climbers of history, but he is not intimidated or threatened by anyone, so the bloke is just happy as pie.

i think being a jerk can come from any level of experience or accomplishment, and is a personal choice.
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