mrchad9 wrote:

Ze wrote:hikers can also be incompetent, but I don't see as many things from them that make me think, 'what the hell are you doing' when I'm on a trail.

You didn't see this then!!!

Photo from Vitaliy M

Those are 'sand shoes' - they are often used in conjunction with a 'sand axe.'

Ze wrote:

TacoDelRio wrote:
"Hey, that asshole on the bicycle is in the middle of the road!"
"Hey, that asshole in his car is crossing the double yellows!"

1st - legal
2nd - illegal

Both = unsafe regardless of a court ruling.

TacoDelRio wrote:

Ze wrote:

TacoDelRio wrote:
"Hey, that asshole on the bicycle is in the middle of the road!"
"Hey, that asshole in his car is crossing the double yellows!"

1st - legal
2nd - illegal

Both = unsafe regardless of a court ruling.

In sailing, there's something called the 'Law of Gross Tonnage' - just because your 16-ft Hobie Cat has the right-of-way, you probably shouldn't try to argue the point with a cargo ship.

Exactly. Reminds me of the kids around here who walk down the middle of the street, apparently oblivious to the fact that the huge lifted bro truck coming down the street wouldn't have any trouble dispatching them.

on nice mountain roads where people can't see you until the last second, I agree. but roads with parked cars or little / crappy shoulder, it's better to be in the middle.

Ze wrote:on nice mountain roads where people can't see you until the last second, I agree. but roads with parked cars or little / crappy shoulder, it's better to be in the middle.

I don't disagree, I'm just trying to remind anyone that we're all the same, regardless of our differences. We're all after the same thing.

An interesting thing in the Times, shows how theyr'e fixing the road....
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... .htmlstory

No info on when it will be open though

That's a pretty cool little walkthrough animation.

The road will be open in 2058, when the Yellow Legged Eight Spotted Sandwich Frogs recover.

Luciano136 wrote:But people passing the road closed sign to hike and ride their bicycle is ok? While I don't think their decision was very smart, no one should be pointing fingers just because they hate on bikers. Most people on this site would probably do the same to hike and bike... Same thing...

This is a very good point and I'm sure has enhanced the distain of their actions for some here. Still, I agree with Gary on this. These guys buzz around at high speeds up there and they have no idea where or when there are going to be workers in the road, possibly around a blind corner. If you're bold enough to go past the barricade and use it like a bridge, you're likely to make another unsafe judgment once inside.

No doubt they would be able to sue in California. I once read about a guy who sued the city of LA after falling though a section of roof that was under construction during a robbery attempt.

NancyHands wrote:

Luciano136 wrote:But people passing the road closed sign to hike and ride their bicycle is ok? While I don't think their decision was very smart, no one should be pointing fingers just because they hate on bikers. Most people on this site would probably do the same to hike and bike... Same thing...

This is a very good point and I'm sure has enhanced the distain of their actions for some here. Still, I agree with Gary on this. These guys buzz around at high speeds up there and they have no idea where or when there are going to be workers in the road, possibly around a blind corner. If you're bold enough to go past the barricade and use it like a bridge, you're likely to make another unsafe judgment once inside.

No doubt they would be able to sue in California. I once read about a guy who sued the city of LA after falling though a section of roof that was under construction during a robbery attempt.

I disagree. One, I can tell you don't ride. While riders enjoy descents, no one, absolutely no one has an interest in crashing at 40 mph wearing nothing but lycra. If you rode, you'd know that.

Two, if I had a nickel every time I heard an apocryphal story about lawyers and bogus lawsuits...Of course they would be able to sue. You could sue someone because you didn't like the color of shirt he's wearing. Would the case get dismissed almost immediately? Yes. Would you get anything? No. End of story.

NancyHands wrote:These guys buzz around at high speeds up there and they have no idea where or when there are going to be workers in the road, possibly around a blind corner. If you're bold enough to go past the barricade and use it like a bridge, you're likely to make another unsafe judgment once inside.

With all due respect, your view on motorcyclists is erroneous. Do you ride motorcycles on ACH and similar roads?

TacoDelRio wrote:

NancyHands wrote:These guys buzz around at high speeds up there and they have no idea where or when there are going to be workers in the road, possibly around a blind corner. If you're bold enough to go past the barricade and use it like a bridge, you're likely to make another unsafe judgment once inside.

With all due respect, your view on motorcyclists is erroneous. Do you ride motorcycles on ACH and similar roads?

Not erroneous at all. I never said every guy on a road bike is unsafe or drives too fast, but please don't try and tell me that more than 30% of the dudes on Hwy 2 are out for a leisurely Sunday ride. I always pull out for them to allow for their fun, and have no issue with it under normal circumstances. A bike can travel much faster than a car on those roads and remain within safe limits, but a closed road does not accommodate for this and is a risky endeavor for rider and city worker alike. To answer your question, I do not ride, but I have two dead friends, one that can not ride anymore after hitting a deer at high speed in Yosemite a few years ago, one that has a high tech prosthetic leg just below the knee (who still rides and has the plate of roboleg) and had another close friend die as a passenger. I have never known anyone who died in a car wreck. You mean like this?



or this:

What's leisurely for one person is fast for others, I guess.

A bike can travel much faster than a car on those roads and remain within safe limits

What do you mean?

I'm sorry to hear about your friends.

Cheers

TacoDelRio wrote:What's leisurely for one person is fast for others, I guess.

A bike can travel much faster than a car on those roads and remain within safe limits

What do you mean?

I'm sorry to hear about your friends.

Cheers

Thanks for the well wishes Taco. I'm sure if you ride up there you have met a few of my current and past buddies.

I'm saying exactly what you said above. While some people think motorcycles are traveling too fast on ACH, a good rider is well within his/her "safe" limits even at speeds almost no car could sustain on those roads. At the same time everything changes when road is under construction. There is going to be gravel and dirt on the road, trucks, caltrans employees and other obstructions without any discretion to possible public traffic as THE ROAD IS CLOSED.

Whether or not one mans too fast is less or more than another’s has nothing to do with it. Even a fairly timid rider can easily travel faster than a car and crossing a road block and making a bridge over a trench does not exude timid behavior. The same would go for someone who could manage to get their car across the road...

I've driven those roads as much as anyone over the last 20+ years - at times on a daily basis. I know how many aggressive riders there are up there and as I said before, more power too them, but they still make bad judgments and I would argue that they do so more often than you would like to admit. You see I have no stake in the overall opinion of bikes on ACH as it makes no difference to me, but I'm guessing you have a stake in it? If so, this can cloud judgment and make room for less than objective thought on the subject. But of course I’m making an assumption since you have not said whether you ride up there or not. Though I seem to remember you posting pictures of you on a bike somewhere before - maybe facebook as we share a mutual friend there.

I'm just picking these randomly.

NancyHands wrote:

TacoDelRio wrote:What's leisurely for one person is fast for others, I guess.

A bike can travel much faster than a car on those roads and remain within safe limits

What do you mean?

I'm sorry to hear about your friends.

Cheers

Thanks for the well wishes Taco. I'm sure if you ride up there you have met a few of my current and past buddies.

I'm saying exactly what you said above. While some people think motorcycles are traveling too fast on ACH, a good rider is well within his/her "safe" limits even at speeds almost no car could sustain on those roads. At the same time everything changes when road is under construction. There is going to be gravel and dirt on the road, trucks, caltrans employees and other obstructions without any discretion to possible public traffic as THE ROAD IS CLOSED.

Whether or not one mans too fast is less or more than another’s has nothing to do with it. Even a fairly timid rider can easily travel faster than a car and crossing a road block and making a bridge over a trench does not exude timid behavior. The same would go for someone who could manage to get their car across the road...

I've driven those roads as much as anyone over the last 20+ years - at times on a daily basis. I know how many aggressive riders there are up there and as I said before, more power too them, but they still make bad judgments and I would argue that they do so more often than you would like to admit. You see I have no stake in the overall opinion of bikes on ACH as it makes no difference to me, but I'm guessing you have a stake in it? If so, this can cloud judgment and make room for less than objective thought on the subject. But of course I’m making an assumption since you have not said whether you ride up there or not. Though I seem to remember you posting pictures of you on a bike somewhere before - maybe facebook as we share a mutual friend there.

I'm just picking these randomly.

I don't ride, but I am a driving enthusiast. I've actually never ridden a motorcycle in the mountains before.

FWIW, it's my belief that a car can always exceed a motorcycle's maximum traction ability on such roads. I've chased many "fast" motorcyclists over the years, usually while I was driving an old car with less-than-stock performance (I'm a student). We once had a rider come up to us and say "I didn't know cars could go that fast!". This is more a scientific topic than anything, so my apologies for going a bit off-topic.

I came out to sort of be middle of the road and defend riding/driving enthusiasts, but it's not necessary since you're balanced. Sometimes I get tired of folks bashing on bikers or vice versa, having been very involved in both sides of the argument.

I have no stance on trespassing or anyone breaking speed laws or whatnot, since that's up to the individual.

Cheers!

PS: Who is our mutual friend on FB?