Yesterday I read an article (for the story, I live in Poland, so I read it on a polish mountain magazine), where the guy bagged an interesting mountain using "narty śladowe" (śladówki in slang), but I can't find the proper translation neither see exactly what it is. According to the article it's a larger version of cross-contry skiiing, but it's not ski-touring. At least I could see the shoes are rather similar to cross country shoes than ski-touring boots. Apparently they are better for exploring soft-shaped mountains out of maintained tracks, than cross country.
So far I knew three main wyas to travel by ski : cross country, ski-touring, and alpine-skiiing. Perhaps Telemark too.
Some translations of "narty śladowe" refer to "back-country skiing", but on most english pages, "back-country skiing" is the same as "ski-touring". I tried to translate it also to the french, my native language, potentially richer in vocabulary for ski declinations, but without success too; I still do not see clearly what is this variant of cross country skiing...
Anyone knows ?
Thanks !
p.s: a link about the mentioned discipline (last chapter):
http://www.skionline.pl/sprzet/?co=sprz ... d_newsa=32

I understand your confusion, because the different ski disciplines aren't as distinct as they used to be. When I tell people I cross country ski, they picture me with the old long skinny skis that are built for speed on the flats, but are near impossible to control on the downhills. But my skis are totally different - built for going off trail in the backcountry. They're shorter, wider, have metal edges to cut through crud, and beefy enough that in good conditions I can do "hockey stops". I don't wear mountaineering boots - I'm still attached to my ski by a little metal bar under my toe, but my boots are much beefier, and just as suitable for snowshoeing, light cramponing, and bar hopping as they are for skiing. I use the same ski techniques a regular cross country skier does, but my backcountry system gives me more stability, so I can climb hills on steep narrow trails, and ski back down with some measure of control. Anyways, I think that's the type of skiing you're asking about. I'd call it "backcountry" cross country skiing.

What's in a name? I use "ski touring" to describe touring specifically for good turns in steep terrain when someone else would use "ski touring" to describe a long hiking-type tour on light skis and boots where steeper slopes are avoided.

If you want to get into the definitions really narrowly:

"Cross Country, Nordic:" I think most people usually use this term for classic nordic skiing that you'd see in the Olympics on groomed tracks. But, like the guy above, I've heard this used for touring on a much beefier setup than nordic skis.

"Skate Skiing:" My friends who skate ski don't refer to it as "cross country," but they might be splitting hairs. The technique and gear is quite different, though.

"Ski Touring:" This is the tough one. I've heard this term used for everything from hiking-touring on very light skis and boots where the goal is not to ski anything at all to full-on backcountry skiing in steep terrain.

"Slackcountry skiing:" A newer term used to describe skiers who ride lifts and then duck out of backcountry gates to ski non-patrolled terrain and then get back into the ski area to ride the lift again to the top. These skiers may or may not be just using resort-style alpine gear.

"Backcountry skiing:" Usually used to denote AT, Tele, or even Splitters (which would make it backcountry riding of course). I've never seen someone refer to nordic-style skiing this way.

"Alpine Skiing:" Almost always refers to lift-served skiing with alpine ski gear.

"Ski Mountaineering:" This is another confusing one. It can refer to climbing on skis to make travel easier (likely with light skis and mountaineering boots) or can be used interchangeably with "backcountry skiing" when the goal is good turns from a summit.

That's the best I can do...

Edit: I forgot "Snurfing." Enjoy.

I've heard this category called XCD, for cross-country downhill. Or at least that's what Karhu called their category of wider, metal-edged, fish-scaled skis (which is exactly what the article describes sladowki as), until they were bought out last year. (They were bought by K2 and their gear is now offered under the Madshus label.) But I don't think there is an established name for this type of skiing. I propose: back-cross-country.

blazin wrote:I've heard this category called XCD, for cross-country downhill. Or at least that's what Karhu called their category of wider, metal-edged, fish-scaled skis (which is exactly what the article describes sladowki as), until they were bought out last year. (They were bought by K2 and their gear is now offered under the Madshus label.) But I don't think there is an established name for this type of skiing. I propose: back-cross-country.

Wow, this is getting complicated. Leave it to marketers to keep inventing more stuff...

Why don't we just call it all "having an awesome time sliding around on snow."

Never mind the shape of the ski, choosing a binding is practically a blood-sport in certain circles. I don't even want to think about how these translate into Polish:

Bindings: Alpine vs Alpine Touring (Randonee) vs Tele-Ski vs Cross Country

I believe what you are describing is a version of normal cross-country set-up modified (strengthened) for off-groomed track, backcountry skiing. There are a couple of different such systems, including the one that I'm using and Rottefella came up with: NNN BC (New Nordic Normal BackCountry). The pin is longer (binding is thus wider) and thicker for durability. There are boots specifically made for NNN BC; lighter ones are much like normal crosscountry boots, but heavier ones have plastic ankle supports on the sides (which in my newbie opinion don't do much).

You can use such system on classic crosscountry skis, but for backcountry most people use them with wider, metal-edged, turn-friendly (shaped) ones like Madshus (Karhu). Most have single camber and are waxless (have fishscale patterns). They are a compromise between downhill turning and crosscountry skiing. Some are better for turning - wider at tip/tail and less camber, which means less efficient kick-and-glide.

There are some new skis (like Rossignol 125 or Fischer 112) that are basically alpine skis with fishscales, so you don't have to keep putting climbing skins on and off for touring. Too wide and flat (not enough camber) for any real kick-and-glide. Moreover, I've been told, those crosscountry bindings like NNN BC are not wide enough to give much control over such skis.

Ed F wrote:

blazin wrote:I've heard this category called XCD, for cross-country downhill. Or at least that's what Karhu called their category of wider, metal-edged, fish-scaled skis (which is exactly what the article describes sladowki as), until they were bought out last year. (They were bought by K2 and their gear is now offered under the Madshus label.) But I don't think there is an established name for this type of skiing. I propose: back-cross-country.

Wow, this is getting complicated. Leave it to marketers to keep inventing more stuff...

Why don't we just call it all "having an awesome time sliding around on snow."

Complicated ? It wasn' complicated in the 70's. Keep in mind that the XCD GT, the very first XC skis with steel edge was the first telemark ski too. Today all the skis are fat, only the paintings are differents.

Muddeer wrote:There are a couple of different such systems, including the one that I'm using and Rottefella came up with: NNN BC (New Nordic Normal BackCountry)... those crosscountry bindings like NNN BC are not wide enough to give much control over such skis.

NNN means New Nordic Norm. BC bindings are not suitable for off-piste skiing (unprepared terrain) because they are unable to push the snow away froms the shoes. Nothing is better than the old 3 pins 75mm bindings (ie Super Telemark from Rottefella, Voilé, etc) with the apropriate shoes. A good compromise is the X-Trace binding http://www.x-trace-bindings.com/start.htm created by the same guy who createad the Karhu XCD GT (and later the Matrix racing skis and the fabulous Ultimate teleski)
This binding accept ANY trekking shoes with a flexible sole. From mid of the 80's I tried everything, from Rottefella to Super Loop, but definitevely X-Trace my favorite today.

Today all the skis fat, only the paintings are differents.

Fat fat fat is the way to go here in Utah. It's like a crazy arms race here in the Wasatch to see who can tour with the heaviest, fattest rig. I thought I was a bit nuts touring the BD Zealot a few years ago with 110 underfoot and a 140 shovel (and 9.8lbs), but now they look like nordic skis compared to what some dudes tour with. It certainly gets you in shape dragging those bastards around. I've intentionally never calculated the exact weight per foot of my powder rig because I just don't want to know...

Thanks all for your explanations. It's much more complex than I imagined ! Need to try a couple of these intermediary categories to see what's fitting best the way to explore the low mountains of my region in winter...

Back in '97 I was on the Haute Route and just as I skinned up one side of a col this Swiss guy came up the other side on a pair of skinny-ass little cross-country skis. He had a set of really thick poles with pads on them, sort of like like pipe insulation. We said "Hi" and he turned around, put the poles between his legs and pointed those skinny little plastic skis straight down the fall-line and let it rip! In the steep sections he put his weight on the poles and pulled up on the handles to slow down... 15-foot rooster tail behind him. I felt like overkill with my (comparatively) heavy AT gear. Saw the guy in a magazine a year or so later - don't know if it ever caught on.