Me and my buddy have a trip planned for Hilgard Peak in early July and I figured we may as well hit up Dutchman while we are there. I have been searching for any info on possible routes but all I have is "approach from the NE to access the steep NE slopes of Dutchman" from my Select Peaks of Yellowstone book. Other than that, nothing! I was thinking it would be easier to approach from the south since that is where we will be coming from anyway, but I'm not sure about traversing over the entire summit ridge to the true summit on the west. The south slopes look much gentler according to my maps but the traverse across the top is the question. Has anyone climbed Dutchman or at least seen it from Hilgard and may be able to say if the NE approach is a better option?

Here's the view from the top of Hilgard:


Climbing from the south looks very reasonable, I seriously can't imagine it's more than class 2, maybe a few class 3 spots (if you're lucky). The crux may be gaining the south ridge from the Hilgard Basin, as there will be huge cornices on that ridge. Hopefully by July there will be easy and safe spots to avoid them.

Also dropping into the Hilgard Basin from Hilgard would also be a challenge most years, but this year it should be a straight-forward glissade for a long while (late July?) - the snowpack is unbelievable this year. Let us know what you find on that route!

Thanks Peakhugger. Yeah it looks like about class 2 on the south side there from that shot. The south side is totally different than the north side. I did Echo last year and the summit ridge looks really jagged from the north but it looks pretty mellow in your shot.

We will be up there July 8-11. I'm really curious how the snow is going to play out by then. Do you think crampons may be necessary for Hilgard given the big snow year?

Morlow wrote:We will be up there July 8-11. I'm really curious how the snow is going to play out by then. Do you think crampons may be necessary for Hilgard given the big snow year?

We camped on an amazing bench at 10,000 ft on July 4th last year and with an early start on a cool morning used crampons all the way up to 11,100 ft. At that point, we were in the SE couloir and on dry rock to the summit. If it's warm enough (>40F nighttime lows), the snow should be soft enough to forgo crampons if that is your preference. If it's getting into the 30s at night, you'll be happy you have them as climbing will be a bit of a pain without. It's really the couloir where you need them, as the snow steepens significantly compared to the rest of the basin. And this year, you could have snow up to 11,250ft in that couloir. You'd be in a difficult spot without them; I'd guess they'll be necessary until late July at the earliest.

Pretty much what I was counting on. Thanks again! I can't wait to get back out into the mountains. I'm stuck in Kansas this summer so I want to make the most of it with some trips out that way.

I was also wondering if there may even still be avalanche hazard that late this year. I am looking at the weather forecast for that area right now and they are still getting loads of snow up there. 3-5 inches tonight, 4-8 Wednesday, etc. Granted, forecasts aren't always accurate but it looks like they may still get some significant snow up there. I've been reading "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" but having zero experience in the field means I would rather avoid threat altogether if possible.

It's been raining hard here for over 24 hours now (at 6000') so I suspect more snow is falling up there. Be prepared for a snow climb, at least Kahtoola crampons would be wise to take, plus an axe. If you go in and out the same way, you could cache them if you don't think you need 'em. I suspect early July will be very wet snow, but maybe the weather will clear up and the high country will open up, as said, we have had a bunch of snow this winter. Good Luck, eh?

Morlow wrote:I was also wondering if there may even still be avalanche hazard that late this year.

(This response has grown lengthy and has turned into a reminder to myself more than anything, as noted below.)

If there's significant fresh snow before you go, there's an avalanche hazard for sure. A few years back, we had >10" fresh in mid-June @ 10,000ft and slides were common on many slopes in the south Madisons, especially the south facing slopes. Our last cycle here over Memorial Day weekend (>15" snow depth and >3" SWE in some places), produced avalanches all over SW Montana. This current cycle may produce similar result; the forecasts have been largely accurate and it is snowing in the mountains frequently. A large amount of fresh snow is possible, but highly unlikely in July.

Also, warming can lead to slides. This is more of a concern in May-June when new and less-strongly bonded snow is more frequent (new snow or loose snow avalanches), but is also possible when the snowpack is still in winter "mode" and has not gone isothermal (wet slab avalanches). In this latter case, layers in the snowpack may create plains where meltwater accumulates and lubricates weak layers. By July weak layers are generally (but not always) well-bonded and wet slabs are less of a risk, but climax slides are possible on some slopes if significant warming occurs (lubricating the ground/snow interface). Look for furrowed snowpack surface as this is a good indicator of well-bonded snow. Loose snow avalanches, often in the form of point releases, occur when the top of the snowpack warms, often due to sun exposure (and thus more common on southerly slopes). If overnight freezing has occured, an early start can allow climbers to minimize the risk of exposure to this avalanche type. Once the snow starts to warm up for the day, be on the lookout for an increasing amount of loose snow on the surface (feet sinking deeper) and any point release activity nearby. If you see point releases from previous days, get an early start if the snow has refrozen or change plans if not (and you're in avalanche terrain).

The unpredictable hazard related to avalanches is cornice collapse. This can happen anytime, anywhere you have a build up of wind deposited snow. I don't know if there is a common reason for cornice collapse, but I'd hypothesize that it's probably dependent on 3 factors: recent (or current) deposition of snow or loading by rain, strong warming trends producing meltwater or otherwise weakening the cornice structure, and general loading of the cornice (by a person or another object). Even acknowledging these potential factors, I wouldn't try to predict if an individual cornice will collapse. There are huge cornices in the south Madisons right now, some with vertical or overhanging leeward edges exceeding 30 feet. We saw intact pieces of collapsed cornices larger than buses in the northern Hilgard basin last weekend. The cornices are not going away anytime soon. Your only way to mitigate this risk is to stay off cornices and not travel beneath them if possible. Cornice collapse can also trigger avalanches on the slopes below them, so your risk is not limited to the mass of snow from the cornice (lethal in and of itself).

Here's a shot of me standing on a patch of solid ground near one of these huge cornices along the northern ridge of Echo last weekend.

The cornice in front of me had cracked and was slowly pulling away. It did not collapse while we were there, but would have been quite the sight!

I frequently wear a beacon with my partners into mid-June. Could be early July this year if it keeps snowing. Without any on-the-ground avalanche training, I'd recommend a conservative approach. Any new snow >3" in the 48 hours before your planned climb is a big warning flag... but remember, any snowpack on the ground means a potential for avalanches (although the probability and consequences may be so low as to present an infinitesimally small risk).

Anyone with more avalanche training is welcome to chime in and correct anything I may have wrong. This advice is not meant to be complete or a replacement for professional training - half of it I've written just to remind myself of what risks I face skiing and climbing this time of year.

Thanks again for the detailed reply. Reading my avalanche book has definitely given me a healthy fear of how the snowpack can be unpredictable. A big, new snow is definitely a game-changer and I would be inclined to cancel plans if there is one right before we head that way. I'm hoping it will warm up over the next month and strengthen up the snowpack.

A couple more questions:
-How long does it usually take for avalanche paths to "smooth back over" after the avalanche happens? I know this is highly weather-dependent. I ask because I don't want to freak myself out by seeing avalanche paths that may have happened, say, 3 weeks ago. The best indication of avalanches being possible is seeing avalanches but it would be nice to be able to tell the difference between a fresh runout and one from two weeks ago, if possible.

-What causes all the trails in the snow on the sides of mountains like this? http://c0278592.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspac ... 532760.JPG Is that just from rockfall?

I generally look at the debris to guesstimate avalanche age. If new snow covers the debris (common in winter), then that's a bit easier if you know the snowfall pattern. Without new snow in late spring/summer, just look at how much the debris have melted and edges "softened". A recent slide will have debris that have sharp edges. But as you say, this depends on weather and temperature. Another potential sign that you're looking at an old slide: the debris may have non-snow material concentrated at the surface (from trees and sticks to dirt and dust), just like old dirty surface snow that is melting. Also note: debris from large slides may persist months, not just weeks. So a path may never "smooth over" in summer.

Your photo looks like rock fall, as you suggest, based on the prevalence and location. Sometimes cornices collapse (i.e. a small piece) can leave a similar pattern. Snow melt water can also leave similar sign in some cases, as can people glissading... Rock fall can be a serious issue on some routes, another reason to climb early in the day (and generally reduce that risk).

Yeah I was thinking of hitting up the Black Mountain Y-couloir (the pic from above) after Hilgard/Dutchman but, again, snow conditions are pretty much an unknown right now. Either way I want to head to Black Mountain after Hilgard/Dutchman, whether I hit up the couloir or not depends on conditions. I'm sure there will be plenty of more mellow stuff to play on if things look bad, assuming I can get up there haha.

Btw, if you are interested in doing any of these let me know. I'm always down for more company. My partner that I am meeting lives in Bozeman as well. I will be out there ~July 7-19 and want to pack as much into that time frame as I can. We are both pretty new to the alpine world but we are both highly motivated to learn and are looking to improve our skills. I will also be out that way in early August, probably about the 5th-19th and hopefully in September as well.