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The Trail-running thread

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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby visentin » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:19 am

Bought these !

http://allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=2272955733

Image

Trying them on Sunday...
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby BigMitch » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:46 pm

Please forgive the further highjacking of the thread, but my conclusion after reading "Born to Run," was that is pure religion.

Bare foot running is great on golf courses, but man was not designed to run barefoot on asphalt and concrete for great distances.

Ever run barefoot 100km or 24 hours on asphalt? With heal-strike shoes with great cushion, it is no big deal.

Even the Tamarahara made running sandals out of used tires for running on trails.

Although not much of a runner, I have run 31 years with heal strike shoes, done 43 events on foot of more than 50 miles, and don't look or feel the worse for it. I also know a lot of runners who have done 2-4 times more than I have over the years wearing heal-strike shoes. Us old-timers shake our heads at this barefoot religion. We are old enough to remember what great inventions road shoes were in the late 70's and trail shoes were in the mid-90's.

Hokas are my future!
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby ExcitableBoy » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:06 pm

visentin wrote:Bought these !

http://allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=2272955733

Image

Trying them on Sunday...


Asics are a great choice, especially if they fit your feet as well as they fit my feet. They are a good compromise from the full on off protection of shoes like the old school Montrail Hardrocks and Solomon XT Wings and regular street shoes.

spiritualspatula wrote:Asics GT2150 if I ...ran track in the same shoes. Since then, I've run the equivalent trailrunning version. The main difference is that the TR's are made with a harder sole and are made with more aggressive lugs that will sustain harder wear on harder terrain. They also will serve to stabilize the foot better, but, from what I've read and hear, are not quite as suitable for marathon+ distances due to the amount of cushioning.


I agree, I ran in similar Asics road shoes and various models of Asics trail shoes and found the same things to be true.
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby peninsula » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:26 pm

BigMitch wrote:Please forgive the further highjacking of the thread, but my conclusion after reading "Born to Run," was that is pure religion.

Bare foot running is great on golf courses, but man was not designed to run barefoot on asphalt and concrete for great distances.

Ever run barefoot 100km or 24 hours on asphalt? With heal-strike shoes with great cushion, it is no big deal.

Even the Tamarahara made running sandals out of used tires for running on trails.

Although not much of a runner, I have run 31 years with heal strike shoes, done 43 events on foot of more than 50 miles, and don't look or feel the worse for it. I also know a lot of runners who have done 2-4 times more than I have over the years wearing heal-strike shoes. Us old-timers shake our heads at this barefoot religion. We are old enough to remember what great inventions road shoes were in the late 70's and trail shoes were in the mid-90's.

Hokas are my future!


Born to Run has good scientific data. It is also a fun book to read. I got a kick out of the goofy ultra-running characters. Undoubtably, forefoot running may not be for everyone, but I'd argue the majority of us would benefit. As for my own personal experience, before reading Born to Run, I was a heel striker. At 55 years of age, my distances were decreasing from 10 or 11 miles to 5 or 6 due to development of sciatica and one knee becoming uncomfortable after longer runs. I was also running on asphalt/cement most of the time. After reading the book, I changed from heel striking to the forefoot and the results were amazing and immediate. It had nothing to do with religion, it had everything to do with the absence of pain! I then started trail running only to find I was even better off. Now I'm up to running 8 to 10 miles, four times a week, and I have no issues with sciatica or knee discomfort. If I run on asphalt or cement, my feet hurt, so I try to keep to running only trails. It took several months for my calf muscles to fully adapt to absorbing the load of my body and that was the only problem short of forefoot blisters, which dissipated after breaking in my running shoes. In my last trail race, a 21K event in Cleveland NF, I won my age group! It was my longest race ever, and my body felt terrific after the event. I'm sold on forefoot striking and I'd encourage others to seriously consider doing so for themselves.
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby spiritualspatula » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:28 pm

Man, they've got some loud colors this season haha. I gotta grab a new pair myself, as mine are on the edge of death. Hope they work out well for you.
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby Yury » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:34 pm

BigMitch wrote:a lot of runners were wearing Hokas.
...
When I got home, I ordered a pair
After this discussion I started thinking about getting similar shoes for myself.
Are Hokas the only type of shoes with such increased shock protection?
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby BigMitch » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:44 am

Don't know, Yury, just the most noticable. Just look for the clown shoes.

I must have really built up legs and feet in my youth hammering 100 kms on a road for many years because at 55, I have no running pains at all.

Since learning how to care for my body after a bad stress fracture in 1985 (early failure is good if it is painful enough!), I have only been injured twice, in 2005 and 2008. Those were not overuse injuries, but race induced injuries on 100 km and 135 mile races, respectively. where I was too stupid not to know when to quit.

Hence, my skepticism during my reading of "Born to Run." I was comparing my lifetime experience with that in the book and the book came up short.

But as I wrote, I am not much of a runner. For the last ten years, I have been running 3 days/week and biking 3 days a week. Just enough to have piss-poor ultra capability in both sports.

I will use my Hokas end of October for at least a solo GC Double Double. I have done four GC Doubles and one GC Triple, so I have to raise the bar while I still have my youth.
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby visentin » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:36 am

ExcitableBoy wrote:
visentin wrote:Trying them on Sunday...

Asics are a great choice, especially if they fit your feet as well as they fit my feet. They are a good compromise from the full on off protection of shoes like the old school Montrail Hardrocks and Solomon XT Wings and regular street shoes.


My first impression is very positive. I ran yesterday 8 miles in 1h05, almost ten minutes quicker than a month ago with the previous shoes. OK, it wasn't real trail running, just through the park with smalls hills here and there. I have improved myself a bit meantime, but there is no doubt about the gain. Previously I tended to have pain in my tibia anterior muscle as soon as I tried to widen my stride being not warm enough. This doesn't occur with the new pair. At the beginning while warming up I didn't feel a significant difference but during the return I started to push a bit harder, and as soon as I found the right pace the shoes really gave it back. Other certitude, the sole has got a terrible grip, and is rigid enough not to feel prominent rocks. OK, the previous pair weren't trail shoes...
I'm waiting now impatiently to try them on rougher terrain, possibly around Sleza near my city.
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby ExcitableBoy » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:51 pm

visentin wrote:the sole has got a terrible grip,

Are you saying they grip poorly or are slipperly?
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby visentin » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:35 am

ExcitableBoy wrote:
visentin wrote:the sole has got a terrible grip,

Are you saying they grip poorly or are slipperly?


Forvige me for this metaphoric way to underline the positive aspect, we use "terrible" in french this way... :)
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Re: The Trail-running thread

Postby visentin » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:18 pm

And here is one of the rare "SP trail-reports" :)

http://www.summitpost.org/mweelrea-mountains/786961
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby Ze » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:24 am

"Born to Run" is a great read, but it does not have good scientific data, just persuasive hack arguments. Heck, there's generally a lack of good scientific data barefoot running to begin with. I enjoy VFF running, but forefoot striking isn't some end all, be all, that the radicals make it out to be.
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Re: Trail running shoes ?

Postby ExcitableBoy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:54 pm

Ze wrote:"Born to Run" is a great read, but it does not have good scientific data, just persuasive hack arguments. Heck, there's generally a lack of good scientific data barefoot running to begin with. I enjoy VFF running, but forefoot striking isn't some end all, be all, that the radicals make it out to be.

Thanks for your perspective, Ze. I have a lot of respect for your opinion, being a Ph.D in exercise physiology an all. A colleague loaned me 'Chi Running', which I read, and my conclusion was, why should I change the way I run, after 25 years of competitive running I saw no reason to change. Sure, some folks are not physiologically built to run and it may help them, but I saw no benefit for myself.
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Re: The Trail-running thread

Postby Trailblazer7238 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:16 pm

No experience with the brands/models you mentioned, but can tell you that I have picky feet when it comes to shoes and recently I needed a new pair of trail runners. Enter the La Sportiva Electrons. Great shoe right out of the box. Very cushy, very sticky, and fits like a glove. Highly recommended!
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Re: The Trail-running thread

Postby ExcitableBoy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:41 pm

Trailblazer7238 wrote:No experience with the brands/models you mentioned, but can tell you that I have picky feet when it comes to shoes and recently I needed a new pair of trail runners. Enter the La Sportiva Electrons. Great shoe right out of the box. Very cushy, very sticky, and fits like a glove. Highly recommended!

Good to know. I've been curious about their trail runners. How is the fit? Characteristically narrow like thier mountaineering boots?
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