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What have you given up for climbing?

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What have you given up for climbing?

Postby mvs » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:18 pm

I was thinking about this the other day.

A lot of us here have built our lives around the dream of climbing.

Juggling the other dreams we have too, of love and family and "success," whatever that means. But you can't help but recognize in yourself, at least I can't, that climbing gets a bigger seat at the table than it deserves, considering how many hours of life really get devoted to doing it. Why is that? Is it a placeholder for something else? For religion? You have to wonder...what would be there if climbing wasn't? It might be something better.

Or worse.

Somewhere along the way you make choices that deform your life. Send you down roads you wouldn't be on. You look at your peers, and see how different things ended up with them. I see a lot of guys who gave up more for the office than I did. Maybe they skipped a vacation week. They might be a vice-president of marketing now, and you are...well, you wouldn't want that anyway, would you?

For me, climbing has been kind of a counter-cultural thing. It made it easy to recognize the treadmill of consumerism. I like to think I value experiences more than goods. I think that makes me a better me, anyway.

But because I've made this choice, years ago now, I can see the outline of other roads that might have been taken. That are now closed. I have to ask the forgiveness of the phantoms on those roads, that I didn't let them come about. But I was in the grips of an idea, and still am: climbing matters. The mountains matter. Their place at the table of my life, and now my family's life, is deserved.

I don't think I should really talk about integrity, or courage, or good or evil. I never fought for our country or the downtrodden and such stories belong to those who have. But over the years I've learned a few things from sacrifice. I kept mountains at the table, and let go of other dreams. This didn't give me any more certainty that what I was doing was right. In the end it had the opposite effect. The choices people make are the raw materials of *life*. I'm humbled before that...to see an individual or a family just motoring through those choices. I'm humbled before each person's spark of life that impels them one way or another. In the western world, we don't usually have the honor of conducting our lives in the universally admirable quest for survival...we only have small choices that nudge us between poles of desire and principle, with inertia providing the downhill path.

I'm rambling, but what I would like to get across is that giving that outsized place at the table of your life to some passion...is a way of building integrity in your life. About recognizing choices and feeling at peace with them. About having empathy for the choices other people made.

There are many risks with trying to live your values.

What if you were wrong? What if you get hurt? By creating your own idea of what success means in life you risk the judgment of those with more conventional definitions. These people are numerous. They are often very nice, and live in warm houses, and some are loved ones. What is lonelier than the disapproval of your peers on the conduct of your life?

And what about your own disapproval? We know Fred Beckey doesn't keep himself up at night wondering if he made the right choices...but we aren't Fred Beckey, god bless him. Are you a "hedonist?" Do you put the pleasure of exotic situations and adventure above actual virtues? That one stings a little bit.

Who can you talk to about this? Well this is one "campfire." It's more likely that one or two people here know what I'm trying to say than somewhere else. For the rest of you who want the pompous blowhard to sit down and shut up, I'm almost done. :lol:

And that brings me to what actually made me write this tonight:

Recently, it seemed to me that Summitpost was "dying." Before I actually "walked away" I already walked away in my heart. Maybe a lot of us did. For me, it took a deeper attack of raw cynicism, and almost murderous glee on the true vision of what SummitPost is about to recognize my mistake. I'm sure it's a trite old saying, but it occurs to me fresh: appreciate your enemies. With their hate, they might just show you what you really value.

To the assertion that the internet is a "free for all," and you can't trust anyone or anything, I offer my words in defiance.

I say that SummitPost IS a community of climbers. Because I NEED a community of climbers, and I'm going to have it if I have to fight for it. The Elves here have stepped up for that vision and come under more attack than usual to keep this a place where we can share our thoughts and maybe learn a few things.

I want to say thanks for that.

We got bored and we didn't care what happened. Well, what happened serves us right. But that's one way to learn.
Thanks, happy to be here,
--Michael
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby kamil » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:07 am

Given up a lot other things for climbing, given up even more climbing for other things. Still trying to have a cake and eat it.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby welle » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:36 am

I have given up my shoe fetish and replaced it with gear whoredom.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby The Chief » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:29 am

Stay out of "OFF ROUTE" Mike and the rest of you folks that may take all that dumbass shit in there on a personal basis, and all should be fine.


Besides, if pertaining to and following the ins and outs of any climbing internet site/s is your primary basis for climbing, I personally believe that anyone that does so should seriously rethink why they tie into a rope in the first place.

SP has been a vehicle for me to share some of my climbing experiences and knowledge. Some seem to think that since my personality is one of brunt hardness or whatever, there isn't much basis to it. I could give a ratass what anyone thinks of me or my delivery style or their perception of me. Ya'll can take it or leave it. Don't mind me none. What they or anyone thinks or SP in general, is most certainly not the basis of why I do or ever will climb.

I have noticed lately, that climbing for many has become a vehicle to socialize. Not me. It has and always will be my primary vehicle to get as far away from humans as possible.

PS: Mike, you have spent time with me on a rope and in my home. I believe you clearly understand my post. Cuz you know who I really am in real life.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby The Chief » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:26 am

And for you folks that didn't get my post... I haven't given up shit for climbing as it has been a priority in my life for a long ass time. Over 42 years to be exact.

Today, I have made the choice to tone my climbing down considerably for my health and my relationship to my Wonderful Wife.

I have re-prioritized my desires in life. And by no means does that mean that climbing has been put on the back burner. On the contrary. I have incorporated all the wonderful things I learned in my climbing experience, into my daily life. And yes that means being very picking as to who I associate with in the human form.
Last edited by The Chief on Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby rhyang » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:31 am

Image

:mrgreen:
Taaaake !
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby mvs » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:09 am

Fletch wrote:Mike - don't think this much. You're giving me a headache. You just need a pep-talk. Have you been drinking?


No.

Fletch wrote:You're fine. Climbing is not inversely related to the other things in your life. The pie (or table) expands and contracts (pretty much with the amount of sleep you get) throughout your life. Success is different for everyone. Don't get caught up in it. Be happy. That's the most important thing. Whether your happiness comes on a mountain, in a boardroom, a chatroom, and/or at home, just be happy. Happiness is a choice and it's much sweeter when you don't overthink it. Strive for balance and you will get it.


Appreciated, thanks.

Fletch wrote:Oh, and SP will keep on keepin' on. It's arrogant to think that any one person is Summitpost. It's an aggregate of many and as long as the lights stay on it will be here longer than you and me. Don't worry, be happy.


Okay. Hope I didn't give the impression that I think that. But thanks again. "Be happy". 'Preciate!
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby Guyzo » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:35 am

Nothing
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby mvs » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:43 am

The Chief wrote:Stay out of "OFF ROUTE" Mike and the rest of you folks that may take all that dumbass shit in there on a personal basis, and all should be fine.


That I can't do. As a matter of fact I've really enjoyed visiting the "Off route" forums lately. I don't have any problem with what's happening in those forums now. They are great.

The Chief wrote:Besides, if pertaining to and following the ins and outs of any climbing internet site/s is your primary basis for climbing, I personally believe that anyone that does so should seriously rethink why they tie into a rope in the first place.


I hope I didn't give the impression that my primary basis for climbing is following the ins and outs of a climbing internet site.

The Chief wrote:SP has been a vehicle for me to share some of my climbing experiences and knowledge. Some seem to think that since my personality is one of brunt hardness or whatever, there isn't much basis to it. I could give a ratass what anyone thinks of me or my delivery style or their perception of me. Ya'll can take it or leave it. Don't mind me none. What they or anyone thinks or SP in general, is most certainly not the basis of why I do or ever will climb.


I don't have any problem with your delivery style. It's what you say that gives me explicitly no problem with you. I don't think this is about you at all.

The Chief wrote:I have noticed lately, that climbing for many has become a vehicle to socialize. Not me. It has and always will be my primary vehicle to get as far away from humans as possible.


I can respect that.

The Chief wrote:PS: Mike, you have spent time with me on a rope and in my home. I believe you clearly understand my post. Cuz you know who I really am in real life.


Indeed. I've read this stuff pretty carefully, probably too carefully. And I've noticed you aren't instigating attacks on anyone. Your colorful "internet personality" (which is not very different from your real personality, something that I find important and interesting) can't hide the basic integrity you bring to the game. I've said some judgemental things over the past few weeks. But I wasn't talking to you at all. People misunderstand if they think what I want (and "people like me," who used to be "good/reasonable" because they didn't participate in the forums) in the forums is a tame, weak "civility" with no spirit behind it.

But anyway, I did hope to spark a philosophical discussion actually about climbing and the role it plays in our lives, not about internet forums. I actually do find tremendous happiness in climbing and in my life in general, I didn't intend to bum everyone out with my long post. The responses I got here indicate I'm way off base, way overthinking, way...everything. Maybe so.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby Guyzo » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:57 am

How about "the cost of climbing" ........ I have never given up anything.

But the cost to me has been:

Lost/failed relationships.

My loving parents considered me a "bum" ...... until lately. :D

10 years behind my peers at work.

I could go on, but why.

mvs you should ask this one:

What are the rewards of climbing?
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby kevin trieu » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:02 am

mvs wrote:I was thinking about this the other day.

A lot of us here have built our lives around the dream of climbing.

Juggling the other dreams we have too, of love and family and "success," whatever that means. But you can't help but recognize in yourself, at least I can't, that climbing gets a bigger seat at the table than it deserves, considering how many hours of life really get devoted to doing it. Why is that? Is it a placeholder for something else? For religion? You have to wonder...what would be there if climbing wasn't? It might be something better.
...
To the assertion that the internet is a "free for all," and you can't trust anyone or anything, I offer my words in defiance.

I say that SummitPost IS a community of climbers. Because I NEED a community of climbers, and I'm going to have it if I have to fight for it. The Elves here have stepped up for that vision and come under more attack than usual to keep this a place where we can share our thoughts and maybe learn a few things.

I want to say thanks for that.

We got bored and we didn't care what happened. Well, what happened serves us right. But that's one way to learn.
Thanks, happy to be here,
--Michael


Michael, just know that you are not alone in your thoughts.
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